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Bob Lotich, CEPF®

About Bob Lotich, CEPF®

Bob Lotich, CEPF® is a Certified Educator in Personal Finance and has over 15+ years experience writing about Biblical personal finance and is the best-selling author of Simple Money, Rich Life and has been named a top 20 social influencer in personal finance. His writing has been featured on Forbes, The Huffington Post, Yahoo Finance, CBN, Crosswalk, Patheos and others. He has been a full-time writer since 2008 and loves uncovering financial wisdom in the Bible as well as discovering the best tools and strategies to help you put more money in your pocket.

How to make giving easier and more fun

December 19, 2022 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

(The following is an abbreviated transcription from a video Linda and I recorded. Please excuse any typos or errors.)

So, this weekend we were asked to give the offering message at our church. And we were praying about what to talk about since Linda and I were giving the offering message together.

Ultimately, we decided what we wanted to chat about. We wanted to talk about the one simple life hack that we extracted out of the Bible regarding giving.

It made giving so much more fun for us. 

I (Bob) used to hate giving. And never did it cheerfully. But this simple hack has helped me fall in love with giving. It’s been a game changer for us and we know it will be for you too!

Now before we get into all the details, I recorded our discussion that you can listen to on our Podcast below. But, if you would rather read the full transcription, you can do so here in this article!

Linda and Meg Ryan

Bob: So Linda’s hair is looking like little Meg, Ryan, look, what, what movies was she in? In like the eighties early nineties. 

Linda: Do I have eighties hair or nineties hair? 

Bob: No, just younger Meg Ryan. 

Linda: I mean, she was in a lot. Sleepless in Seattle. You’ve got mail. 

Bob: She in Sleepless in Seattle? Oh, wow. Yeah, she was kind of the big thing back then, wasn’t she? 

Linda: She was the big thing. 

Bob: Yeah. So anyway. 

Linda: Meg Ryan. 

Bob: Meg Ryan. 

Linda: I mean, I’ll take that compliment any day. 

Bob: Yep. 

Linda: That I look like a movie star, doesn’t matter who it is. I’ll take it. 

Bob: Well, I’m sure. Anyway.

Giving the offering message at our church

Bob: So, this weekend we were asked to do the offering message at our church. And we were praying about what to talk about. And we ultimately decided we wanted to chat about, Linda and I both did it together, we wanted to talk about one simple life hack that we extracted out of the Bible, that made giving so much more fun for us. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: And really helped make me from hating giving to it being one of my favorite things in life. And even there are multiple things in here. Like God working on my heart over years was a big part of that. But from a practical perspective, I don’t know if there’s anything bigger than what we’re going to talk about here. That helped me move down the line with that. 

Linda: Yeah. Well, I often think it’s the little things that seem insignificant, that end up making the biggest difference.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: And so. 

Bob: And this is one of those things that, I think… 

Linda: This is one of those things that doesn’t seem like it’s that big of a deal.

Bob: If you’re listening to this, please don’t just dismiss this as “oh, well that’s not a big deal,” you know? Because it’s easy to look at that and feel like that’s not going to make that much of a difference. And I understand why you think that. 

Linda: Yes. 

Bob: Because I thought the same thing, but the truth is is that…

Linda: It makes a huge difference. It’s a really, really big deal. So I mean, it’s something to try and if we’re wrong. 

Bob: Yeah. There’s no, there’s no downside. 

Linda: There’s no downside. 

Bob: And you know, so if you’re in that situation. 

Linda: There’s lot to gain. 

Bob: If you’re in that situation where you don’t like giving or you want to like giving, you know, because that was something where, where I was for a while too. I think both of us where it’s like, I want to be a giver. I want to be a generous giver. I want to smile when I give, instead of being reluctant or out of compulsion.

2 Corinthians 9:7

Linda: Well, let’s read the scripture. So 2 Corinthians 9:7 says “each one must do just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful giver.”

Bob: So the point to mention here… 

Linda: One translation says “hilarious generosity.” 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: God loves hilarious generosity. 

Bob: I want to highlight something real quick. 

Linda: Oh, go ahead. 

We need to decide what we will give

Bob: So what I think is important to notice here, and we’ll come back to this whole idea of he specifically said each one must do as he is decided.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: So do the thing that you have decided to do. So hold that thought. And you run with whatever you’re going to say. 

The feelings around giving

Linda: Yeah. I mean the hilarious generosity thing, I kind of feel the hilarious generosity. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: But I didn’t always feel that way. 

Bob: Mm-hmm. 

Linda: I do think that this was a massive shift in helping that happen.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: I grew up in the church. I’ve heard this scripture so many times. And a lot of times it would be around a giving message (check out these 10 famous quotes on giving). And if I’m being honest, I don’t think that this was projected upon me, but I felt guilty when I would hear it. Because what would happen is, I would think, “oh yeah, Lord, I want to give you everything.”

You know, you have this moment where you see how good he is and how faithful he is and you know that you want to serve him with everything. But when it comes time to give, your brain starts going, “Oh shoot, that bill is due this next week.” Or, you know, “We’re going on that trip. And so I don’t know that I have that money to give, I think it’s allocated somewhere else.”

And so you kind of do one of those things where you’re like, “well, I’m just going to give it anyway.” Right? Which is compulsion. 

Bob: Yep. 

Linda: You’re like, I’ll just give it anyway and I’ll figure it out later. Or you give kind of with a clenched fist just hoping like, “Oh my gosh, this is a bad idea. I have to do it anyway, because I’m trying to obey the scripture.”

Bob: Yeah. But you’re not cheerful giving. 

Linda: Yeah. You’re not. It’s not hilarious generosity. Right? Or I just wouldn’t give it all because I would feel like, well, I don’t have it to give. And none of those options felt good to me. Like they all felt against this verse. And so if the Bible’s telling me this, and I’m hearing this and somebody’s like drilling this into my head and these feel like my only options. I feel like a bad Christian.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Right? 

Bob: And there’s guilt there’s condemnation. All those things are at play. In which one of the things that I’ve observed is that when the guilt and condemnation knob is turned up on your giving, like that doesn’t cause people to give more. 

Linda: No. 

Bob: It causes them give less. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: When people feel shame and feel guilty for not giving more, you might be able to squeeze that a little bit and get a little bit more, but it just, I think it backfires most times.

Linda: Well, I’ll let you read the next scripture and then I’ll comment.  I have so much to say, and we didn’t get to say that much in this, in this offering message. 

Diving into Paul’s lessons to the church

Bob: Yeah. So okay, back to 2 Corinthians 9:7. It says each one must do as they’ve decided. Okay. So come back to that. So this is 2 Corinthians, but if we remember Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, previous letter to the same church. 

Linda: Same church. 

Bob: He’s the same guy. 

Linda: Same people. 

Bob: And so when he’s saying this, you must do as you’ve decided in your heart and talking about all this giving stuff, they’d already read the first letter. Like they had that as a reference point. He had already communicated to them. So this is in addition to that he’s operating it under the assumption that they had seen the previous letter. Okay? 

Bob: So what he says at the end of the first letter, 1 Corinthians 16:2, I’ll give you the paraphrase here. But he basically says, as you earn money throughout the week, set it aside. And I think he says on the first day of each week, set it aside. One translation says place it in safekeeping so that when it’s time to give the money is sitting there ready to go. 

Linda: Ready to go. 

Create a separate giving account

Bob: And what’s so powerful about this, is our practical application of this Like, all right, how can we practically apply this? And so we opened a separate giving account (one of our budgeting categories). 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: So at the beginning of every month we take the amount that we have decided, because we decide on a percentage that we’re given each year. And at the beginning of each month when our paycheck comes in, we move that amount that we’ve decided into that account. Place it for safekeeping, like he says. Then when it’s time to give at the offering, or when God leads us towards something, the money’s sitting there waiting to be spent. And it feels like we’re spending someone else’s money.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: Because once we put money in that account, it’s no longer ours. And so it just completely changes the psychology of it. Like this last weekend, our air conditioner went out. When we went to church, it wasn’t this “well, our air conditioner just went out. I’m not sure how much it’s going to cost. So we’re not going to give this week because of that.” Like, whereas we move it into this account once it’s there, it’s already decided upon. And so that doesn’t play into the factor. It’s not a factor in the decision anymore. 

Linda: Right. 

Bob: Whether or not we had to buy groceries this week doesn’t affect whether or not we’re going to give. 

Linda: Mm-hmm.

Bob: And previously when all of our money was in one account, one big bucket, that happened all the time. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: And so we were inconsistent. And it was so much more pressure and it was never fun. I know you want to talk, I’m going to shut up for a minute. 

Biblical instruction for giving

Linda: There’s just so much to say. I mean, this is so good. Well, one of the things I really love about this is that for all these years I had heard this scripture and thought there was a finger being pointed at me.

Bob: Mm-hmm. 

Linda: Like, you better do it this way. Never realizing… like I’ve read the Bible. It’s not like I haven’t read the Bible, but I don’t think I’ve ever realized or heard these two scriptures together. 

Bob: Mm-hmm. 

Linda: Where it’s like God is saying to us through the letter of Paul. The holy spirit is speaking through the Bible saying, “I’m going to tell you exactly how to do this so that you’re not stressed out.” That you’re not just going to compulsively do something. So that you have a plan in place. So that’s what this idea of do what you’ve decided. The way you can do this is because you’re making a plan. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: And all this time, I just thought, “well, I just have to do what I’ve decided.” And, and the pressure was on me to make it happen. And I didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t know how to actually get it done. You know as we were talking about this and I mean, honestly, if I’m being real honest. 

Bob: Be real honest. 

Linda: I didn’t know about this verse until you brought it up last week. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: As we were preparing for this. We’ve had this seed account, we call it our seed account. We’ve had this giving account for years and years. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: So this is an old idea for me (and us). 

Bob: Yeah. We talk about it in the book (Simple Money, Rich Life) It’s in the giving section of the book for anybody who wants to read more about it. 

Linda: Right. But the idea that it’s in the Bible of God saying, here’s how you do it. And then he says, okay, remember do what you’ve already decided.

Bob: Yeah. 

Safekeeping our money

Linda: Like, yes. Do get that money out of that safekeeping. Now the safekeeping I don’t think is from thieves and stuff. Because we can just put money in a bank. Right? I think the safekeeping is keeping it safe from us. Keeping it safe from me wanting to buy a new purse. 

Bob: Keeping our grubby little fingers off of it.

Linda: I know. 

Bob: You know? 

Linda: Or wanting to take my kids to Chick-fil-A. I mean, it doesn’t have to be anything bad, you know? Or anything super selfish. It’s just set it aside so that you’re not tempted to spend it on something else that’s fleeting. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: So yeah, I got really excited about this because I love when the Bible’s wisdom just brings you into this place of freedom. Brings you to this place where you don’t have to give it under compulsion or begrudgingly. You just don’t have to do that. You’re just ready to go. And when you’re ready to go, that’s really when I think the adventure aspect comes in. 

Bob: It’s empowering.

Linda: Yeah.

Setting yourself up for giving readily

Bob: I think that’s the thing that’s been so fun to me. When you go into the beginning of the month with money sitting in an account, waiting to be spent. You’re on the lookout for what God might have for you to do. And where he might have for you to give and opportunities that he might place in front of you. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: And it just changes everything. It changes the way you think about giving in the, the looseness of your hand. 

Linda: Yeah, because you’re no longer going, “Alright, Lord. Okay. I feel your nudge, trying to tell me to do this thing, but I don’t know where I’m going to get this money from. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Instead of doing that, you’re like, “where is it going, Lord? Where do you have it going?” 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: And you just sit, and you just, you know, you can wait until he says that’s it. And then you’re like, got it. I’m on it. 

Supernatural provision and breakthrough

Bob: Yeah. And the other thing, I mean, just from my unique perspective of being in a position where I’m talking and hearing from people about money, mostly Christians, for 15 years now. Um, I can tell you with a lot of confidence. When you start giving on higher levels, like your needs are met. It’s the Matthew 6:33 thing. “Seek first a kingdom in his righteousness, and then all the things will be added onto you.” And there’s something, there’s that Parable of the Talents thing of, as you step out doing what you can do, making the most of what you’ve been entrusted with. God tends to entrust you with more. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: It just makes sense. We literally talked to two or three people in the last 24 hours, who have given us stories of this. One girl had never given more than what, $20 a month or something. 

Linda: Oh, well she just hadn’t been giving more than $20 a month and she works a full-time job, she’s an adult. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: So to her, she was like, that was 1% of my income or 0.5% of my income. And she said, “when I saw that I was like, forget this. I’m going to actually start tithing.” So she starts tithing. And she had, I don’t know, probably at least five stories that she just randomly told us.

Bob: Supernatural provision and breakthrough.

Linda: She went to go park. Parking was going to be $20 or something. And some guy ran out to her car and said, Hey, if you let my friend go ahead of you, I’ll pay for your parking. And she’s like, “okay.” She just let one car go in front of her and her parking was paid for. I mean, that’s just so out of the blue. I’ve never heard of that happening ever.

Bob: Well, and the promotion that she got. Anyway, the point is that, I’m hearing these stories all the time. 

Linda: Right. 

Airing on the side of giving more

Bob: And so for anyone listening if you’re in that situation where you’re like, I don’t know, should I give more? Should I not? I mean, if you’ve read our book…

Linda: You know, where we stand.

Bob: We lean in the direction of always airing on the side of giving more. Because it’s my goal to live the rest of my life, proving out the fact that you cannot outgive God. We’ve seen so much of that. 

Shifting the focus outward

Linda: Yeah. Well, and I think something that happens in your heart when you give, too. It’s like you take the focus off of yourself and kind of move it outward. 

Bob: Mm-hmm. 

Linda: And there’s something that just happens in your heart where you’re like all of a sudden, it just has less of a hold on you.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Like the spirit of mammon. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: It’s just not as present as it was before. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: And I don’t know of any other way to combat that. 

Bob: Well, no. I mean, I remember writing about that book too. 

Linda: Do you? 

Jesus’ prescription for the love of money

Bob: Just how Jesus, in multiple instances when he came across people who loved money and that’s the truth of it.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: They loved money. He prescribed generosity to them, you know? And I think when you understand that, like that was a common remedy that he tossed out there to fight off the love of money. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: The reality is that probably all of us, to some extent, deal with this. You know? Some of us more than others. And we’re all growing in that journey of dealing with a love of money and not making it a big deal. But I think the point that you’re saying that I’m agreeing with is generosity is the thing. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: That continues to ward that off and push that back. 

It’s a continued journey

Linda: Yeah, because it is a continual thing (our stewardship journey). I don’t feel like we’ve arrived. 

Bob: No, I don’t. I don’t think you ever arrive until you get to heaven. 

Linda: I think that this is a constant battle because we live on earth.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: And I wish it wasn’t. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: But I do think that it’s interesting that even, you know, with us giving a significant portion of our income. We’re still not like, “Yep. That was it. We did it. We’re there.” It’s still something that honestly, I feel like I have to just go, ” Okay, Lord. I’m thinking about myself a little too much.”

Bob: Yeah. And it puts us in a place of dependence on him. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: Which is where he wants us. To be dependent on him.

Linda: True. 

Bob: Because it could easily be prideful of “we got this giving thing down,” you know?

The truth about Instagram influencers

Linda: Seriously, I did ask Bob not long ago. I was like looking at all these influencers and I was like, “How are they affording all this stuff?” Now we’re not living on the poverty line, but you look at these people and you’re like, how are they renovating their house every other month? And buying all new furniture. And all new clothes. And their kids have all new clothes that they wear them once, and then they’re gone. And new cars, nice cars (check out our used car buying tips). And I mean, it really gets excessive. This influencer portrayed ideal life isn’t reality for most people. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: I think a lot of those people have things given to them. 

Bob: Well, and I don’t know. 

Linda: We know enough to know that that’s how it works. 

Bob: I don’t know how far you’re going or who you’re looking at in particular. But there’s no doubt that plenty of them are renting things. Or like, remember that documentary we saw? Where they were talking about those influencers? They’re renting a private jet by the hour to make it look like they have a private jet.

Linda: Oh my gosh. 

Bob: And I know that like exotic cars (even dream cars), you can do that too. 

Linda: Well, yes. But also I think when you’re on Instagram, they all get combined. So even if it’s like this one influencer only just bought a new house. And then it’s like 10 years before they buy another one. 

Bob: Yeah.

Linda: It seems like they’re buying a new house every other day though, because I’m following all these influencers. But anyway. I was like, how are they affording all this stuff? And Bob’s sakd, “they’re probably not giving. They’re probably just spending most of it on themselves.” And I was like, oh. 

Bob: Yeah. Well and debt, combination (here’s how to get out of credit card debt on your own).

Linda: And debt. Yeah.

We’ve chosen to run a different race

Linda: And it woke me up to like, “oh right. We just don’t live that way.”

Bob: No, we’ve chosen to run a different race. That’s not our top priority. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: And God’s taking care of us and we’ve been able to have some nice things in the process. But that’s not our priority. It’s not what we’re chasing after. 

Linda: Yeah. And I didn’t mean that to sound like we’re living like paupers. Honestly, I think we have a very nice life. But I think because there’s all this stuff online and it makes you feel like what you have is not enough (stop trying to keep up with the Joneses!). 

Bob: Yeah. The eyes of men are never satisfied, there’s no limit. 

Linda: Like they’re going on trips all the time (check out howwe travel for free). First of all, where are they getting all these babysitters? That’s what I’d like to know. But anyway. I do think that getting your focus off of that and focusing on someone else. How can we help someone else, really combats that idea. 

Wrapping things up and your homework

Bob: All right. So let’s, put a bow in this. 

Linda: Let’s put a bow on it. 

Bob: Kind of pulling all this back together. Yeah, just trust us on this.

Linda: Just do it. 

Bob: If you haven’t tried this, I encourage you to try it. Follow Paul’s advice. Go read 1 Corinthians 16:2, look at it in a couple different translations. Look at it in The Passion Translation, or it’s not a translation it’s a paraphrase, TPT. Look it up in there. And give this a shot, because I challenge you for two or three months to try this. And let us know if we’re wrong.

Linda: We won’t be. Spoiler alert!

Bob: Send us a DM on Instagram, @seedtime. I’d love to hear how that goes for you. Because like I said, this has been a game changer for us. I used to hate giving. I used to be one of tightest-fisted, stingiest people that I knew. And this was a big part of that change.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: So, that’s your homework. Try that, come back to us report back in a couple months. Let us know how it goes. And I think that’s it. 

You can help us

Linda: And put it in a review on iTunes. 

Bob: Put in a review on iTunes. Yes, that’d be awesome. 

Linda: Because really, if you did that and then somebody read that, you’re contributing into…

Bob: Yeah. You’re helping. 

Linda: Right. Changing people’s perspective on this, which really needs to happen. Because this whole thing of money, I feel like in the kingdom of God it needs to get sorted out so that we are focused on the right thing. Instead of being focused on money, it’s so easy to do. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Is to just focus on your money. 

Bob: Because that’s what most of the world is doing. But we don’t take our cues from the world though. 

Linda: We do not. 

Bob: We don’t. Anyway. I think that’s all for tonight. 

Linda: That’s all. 

Bob: Have a wonderful day. 

Linda: Today, tonight. 

Bob: Today, tonight. Whenever you’re listening. 

Linda: Whenever, yeah.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: It’s tonight for us. 

Bob: And we’ll see you next time.

The $1k Christmas Giveaway 🎉

January 6, 2023 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

So, we went to our first square dance the other day and so I had to break out my cowboy hat.

Apparently it’s always a good time to wear a cowboy hat!

LOL

But anyway, let’s get to the really fun stuff…

The latest polls show that the average American spends $997 on Christmas each year…

Wouldn’t it be nice if someone just covered the cost of Christmas for you this year?

Well, that’s what we are going to do for someone in the SeedTime community.

Yep, we are sending someone in the SeedTime community a $1k Amazon gift card!

**Picture us shooting off a confetti cannon right now**

How to enter the $1k Christmas giveaway

If you want a chance to win, there are 2 simple ways to enter.

IMPORTANT: You can do EITHER of the options below to be entered to win OR you can do BOTH for more entries!

1. Buy a copy of our book Simple Money, Rich Life as a gift for someone.

Or you can buy a copy for yourself. Doesn’t matter.

But rather than buying them socks or a fruitcake, you should get them the gift that can change their life!

You will get 1 entry for every book that you buy between now and December 23rd, 2022

Additionally, we are now selling the book (& shipping to U.S. only) from our site here in discounted packages of 1, 4, and 24 copies.

Note: if you buy the books from our site, you will automatically be entered to win. But if you buy the book from Amazon or other retailers you need to forward the receipt or screenshot of the order page to [email protected].

2. Share what you like about Simple Money, Rich Life on social media

If you already own the book, just head over to Instagram, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, or Linkedin and share about what you like about the book.

Feel free to tag us (seedtime) and use #simplemoneyrichlife as well.

But to make sure we get you entered, do us a favor and take a screenshot of what you shared and email it to [email protected].

We want to make sure EVERY entry gets counted!

About the book

If you are fairly new around here, let me get you up to speed.

Earlier this year we released our book Simple Money, Rich Life which became an Amazon best-seller and is nearing 250 5-star reviews on Amazon.

It has been amazing seeing how God is changing lives with this book!

Join us on a journey to true financial freedom as we share our best tactics and strategies, inspirational stories, Biblical wisdom, and some laughs.

All without a hint of guilt or shame.

This is just a small sample of what we cover in Simple Money, Rich Life…

  • How to create a money system to spend less time and get better results
  • The one-category budget: get 80% of the results with 20% of the work
  • How to earn significantly more (without getting a side hustle)
  • How to automate your way to financial success in less than 10 minutes
  • The secrets of a six-figure giver
  • How to save $100s each month while still buying what you love
  • And much more!

BUY a copy as a gift & get entered to win $1k now

As always, thanks for being part of this wonderful community!

Know that Linda and I are praying for you and appreciate you more than you know!!

Your friend and coach,

bob

How to use a no-spend challenge to pay off debt and save (with Frugal Friends)

October 31, 2022 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

(The following is an abbreviated transcription from a podcast Linda and I recorded with Frugal Friends Jen Smith and Jill Siriani. Please excuse any typos or errors.)

Start a No-Spend Challenge

Today we are chatting with Jen Smith and Jill Siriani (hosts of The Frugal Friends podcast).

Jen is the author of a best-selling book on Amazon called The No-spend Challenge Guide and she ended up using no-spend challenges to not only help her pay off over $70k of debt, but also to learn a lot of deep lessons about herself.

As the book states “you’ll learn how to use No-Spend Challenges to reach your financial goals faster and transform your spending habits to finally be able to stick to a budget.”

This is very interesting to me, because 30 day challenges have been very significant in my life. They have been very powerful in my life, with great impact. So I am intrigued by this idea of a no-spend challenge because I’ve never done a no-spend challenge before. There’s a lot of value in this and we’ll get into that.

Now before we get into the details of the book, I recorded our discussion that you can listen to on our Podcast. But, if you would rather read the full transcription, you can do so here in this article!

The No-Spend Challenge

Bob: So you guys have this book The No-Spend Challenge Guide on Amazon’s best seller list. You have a ton of reviews and it seems like it’s going really well. I want know how this started for you. I’m assuming you both went through no-spend challenges and it must have impacted you to some level that inspired you to write a book about this. I would like for Jen to share her story. And then Jill, I want to hear about your story.

Jen: So I actually wrote and published the book shortly after I met Jill. But I used no-spend challenges to essentially teach myself frugality. So my husband and I had $78,000 of debt between us and we wanted to pay it off. I really thought that I could just side hustle my way out. Like I was already buying the generic brands at the grocery store and I thought that meant I was responsible with my spending.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jen: It didn’t help that on the way home from the grocery store, I was buying Chipotle for dinner. There was a disconnect there. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: Yeah. 

It’s about spending less, not making more

Jen: So I thought I could just side hustle my way out of debt. And two months into that plan, I was working so so many hours that I gave myself shingles from the stress.

Linda: Wow. 

Bob: That’s no fun. 

Jen: It was not. And I still kind of have the nerve damage from that. So when I get stressed, my body kind of reminds me to slow down. 

Linda: Wow. 

Jen: So a blessing and a curse, I guess. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Jen: I realized I had to figure out how to spend less. But I really didn’t want to give up the things that I loved. But honestly, I couldn’t tell you what I loved and what I didn’t love. I wanted to spend money on anything I wanted whenever I wanted. I’m an adult.

So I decided if I’m going to go in on something, I go all in. So I was like, okay, I will spend a month just not spending money, besides like on bills and debt payments and all that stuff. I will cut out everything and just put all the money towards debt from what I save.

I didn’t go into it thinking that I would find what I value and what I want to spend money on guilt free. And what I am spending money on that I didn’t realize, like the Chipotle trips on the way home from the grocery store. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jen: I didn’t go into it thinking I’d discover those, but those were the long term benefits of the challenge. And frankly, much more beneficial than maybe the couple hundred dollars I saved by doing the actual no-spend challenge. And so I did several of those during the two years we were paying off our debt. And I was like, this has been eye opening for me in the long term benefits of these things. And then figuring out how I can still have what I value while not spending money, like forcing myself to get creative.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jen: And so, that’s why I wrote the book. And that challenge was an inspiration for the early episodes of the podcast, when we started it just maybe six months after.

Permission to spend

Bob: Yeah, that’s cool. All right. So Jill, tell me, have you done any no-spend challenges? Like have they impacted you at all?

Jill: Oh, my whole life is a no-spend challenge. There’s something to explain here. I think that certainly when people think about the word frugality, it can oftentimes get associated with cheap and deprivation. And I definitely don’t want to spread a message of something that’s not attainable. But, I also want to recognize all of my my hoarders, my money hoarders and savers out there.

And the people who are like, I’m not going to spend if I don’t have to. That has been developed and cultivated in me sometimes. Well, out of necessity from previous experiences, but then just adopted as a lifestyle in many ways. And so I think for me, my journey of frugality and an understanding that has come out of not spending is a permission to spend. Which is similar to what Jen is describing. We just got there by different modes of transportation.

Jen is the brains behind The No-Spend Challenge Guide. She solely authored that. The only thing we’ve co-authored together is is a workbook. But yes, I have done no-spend challenges. Although that’s not necessarily my issue. My issue is permission to spend. And permission for my partner to spend.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jill: But of course, paying attention to where the spending is, or the lack of spending is, has definitely informed me about myself and my values. Like Jen is saying with the no-spend challenge. And then creating that permission of, but now how do I want to utilize this resource of money. And where do I want to save? And if I’m saving, what’s the best place to be putting that money. And if I want to spend, where’s the best place to spend that money. So my journey has been more of the where can I spend with guilt free? 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Spending money and your spouse

Linda: We should talk a little bit more about that because that is something that I think a lot of people listening to a podcast about money are probably leaning a little bit more on the side of needing to give themselves and their spouse, specifically, permission to spend. I would love for you to talk a little bit more about that. I mean, this is not my problem. I’m like, yeah we can spend money all day long. I have no problem there. 

Bob: She’s right. 

Linda: Like, I think it’s interesting because there can be that tension of, I feel like you just don’t want me to ever spend money and I have always have to ask permission. Right? So, yeah, expand on that. 

Jill: Oh, I can talk to this. Jen has had firsthand observation of this very conversation. My husband is amazing. I really hit the jackpot in all of the layers and levels. 

Linda: Congratulations. 

The spending habits

Jill: Yeah. He’s so great. I have such great things to say about him. In my opinion, he spends a lot of money on shoes. Like I think he’s shoe obsessed. He denies this. He does not agree and digs his heels in. Not only does he not agree that he’s not shoe obsessed, but he claims that I have more shoes than him. 

Linda: Have we counted? 

Bob: This should be easy to figure out, guys. 

Jill: But the thing is… 

Jen: They need a third party.

Jill: His shoes are also everywhere. I feel like I have to whisper cause he is in the house. I can’t get an accurate count because I’m still discovering them. There’s some in the trunk and then there’s some in the garage and then there’s some out on the patio… 

Bob: All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. 

Jill: Yeah, okay. However, it came to this conversation recently where I was kind of poking at it. I don’t really care, we’ve got money for the shoes that he wants to buy. But for me, I don’t get it. If I’m going to buy a pair of shoes, it’s going to be functional. It’s got to be that a pair of my shoes just broke. Or, suddenly I decided to become a runner and I need good running shoes. Like there’s got to be a reason it’s going to be form and function. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jill: And we’re not just buying things to just buy them. 

Linda: So funny. 

Realizing that your spouse “just likes it…”

Jill: But it occurred to me, as we were having this conversation, the connection that really helped me to create space and permission was he just likes it. He just likes shoes. There’s not many other things that he’s going to spend frivolously on…

Bob: Yeah. 

Jill: …other than on shoes. I think that’s why it strikes me like, yeah, you buy construction stuff. That makes sense because we’re building a house. And, we’re doing renovations. Or, you buy music equipment because you’re writing an album. That makes sense to me. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Jill: But why do you just need another pair of shoes? Like, what shoes is this going to replace? Or, what problem do you have now with your shoes that this is going to solve that problem? And he’s just like “… nothing. I just like them. I think they’re really cool.” And something clicked with me.

Value based spending

Jill: We talk all the time, but of course I can be a little bit dense of values based spending. And understanding where our values are and how our spending and decisions and actions can align with that. And for me, it clicked when I realized he just likes it. This is fun for him. He finds it beautiful in his own way.

It’s something that he would enjoy spending money on, enjoy wearing. He just likes it. It might not form a function. It might just be form. And permission, I kid you not, it’s like a flip switch to my mind. And I thought he values that and I value him. So I’d love for him to be able to purchase those shoes.

Now it’s not like sky’s the limit. He can’t like buy all five of the shoes. He’s got his eyes on right now. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jill: But I think when it comes to these money conversations and getting our partners to, or not to, when we can bring it to that deeper level of values.

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Jill: And when we can honor the other person and the needs that they represent and the uniquenesses that they represent, it becomes a much different conversation than just how do we want to spend this $50? Can you click that buy button? It becomes, well, what does this say about you and how does this connect with maybe some of your needs wants and desires and values? And how can I honor that in you before we even get to the buying conversation? 

Linda: Yeah.

Bob: I love that. That’s good. Yeah, that sounds very familiar.

Questioning your spouse’s decisions

Linda: Yeah, I’m the one that just wants another pair of shoes. And he’s like why? Bob basically just went through his wardrobe the other day. And got rid of half of his clothes. 

Bob: It was really half. 

Linda: And doesn’t want to replace them. He’s like, I just have too many. 

Bob: No, I want fewer things. I went from like 10 pants down to three pair of pants.

Linda: I’m like, dude. 

Bob: And I’m happier. 

Jill: But I also realize that we want freedom. And we talk about this all the time on our podcast. That our financial journeys, there’s so much freedom in it (here’s my checklist to financial freedom). It’s not a one size fits all.

And something that I also realized is my goodness, if he questioned every decision I make and some of the ways that I question him, that would feel so stifling. And so also checking my own self of… he never questions me if I want to buy something. Usually it’s because like, I’m not hardly buying anything, but in other areas… 

Bob: He’s like applauding you. 

Jill: Oh, he put a pause on our credit card account one time, because they thought it was an odd charge that something was bought off of Walmart.com, and they called him. And he is like, no, no one. I didn’t and my wife never buys anything, so no. He canceled the card.

I’m like, what happened to our credit card? He’s said there was a weird Walmart charge. And I told him, that was me. He’s like what?! You’ve never purchased from Walmart.com. Like that one time I did…

Linda: You need to give him a heads up when you buy something.

Jill: Exactly. So he doesn’t cancel all of our cards (here are my credit card recommendations). 

Bob: That’s great. 

Jill: But again, back to that freedom. Where can I create freedom for him? How would I want to be treated, right? Just back to that golden rule of …

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jill: I don’t want to stifle him and I don’t want to be stifled. There is freedom here and where we can value each other.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: Yeah. That’s good. All right. Linda, do you have something to add here? 

Frugal vs. cheap

Linda: Yeah. So you mentioned this here, but you also in something that I read about you guys. About how frugality isn’t cheap. And they are two different things. I would love to hear more about that and your views on that and how that filters, maybe your buying decisions.

Bob: Well, yeah, because so many people, they are synonym. 

Linda: Right. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Jill: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: I want to hear your take on it. You have frugality in your name. So, I’d just love to hear how you guys define those two terms. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Jen: Yeah, that is one of our core missions. To remove that synonymous… synanonymity, if that’s a word, between frugal and cheap.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jen: Before I was paying off debt, I thought I was spending soundly by buying generic products at the grocery store. Or buying the $3 clearance clearanced shirt at Target and doing stuff like that.

Being frugal

Jen: That’s what I interpreted as being frugal, or being like conscious with my money. But what we’ve really discovered through this journey, and actually just having lived life, is that when you buy quality, that you buy less. And so that kind of led us to not only does quality stuff lasts longer, but it’s often also made more sustainably. And the human interaction from the source to our house is less and better.

Being cheap

Jen: And so for us, we’ve discovered that cheap is really poor quality and it’s inconvenient. So maybe frugality isn’t always the most convenient option, but it’s definitely not inconvenient. It’s not like spending hours clipping coupons to save $3. So cheap is inconvenient, it’s lesser quality. It’s at the expense of other people sometimes.

Stewardship

Frugal people can be looked at as moochers. And we’re definitely not that. So it’s taking all that away and putting that on cheap and viewing frugality as just being wise stewards of our resources. 

Bob: That’s good. 

Jen: And stewarding these resources as well as possible.

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Shortsightedness vs. longer term thinking

Bob: Would you say that being shortsighted is in alignment with being cheap? Specifically in terms of the value idea of buying this cheap thing . That if you would’ve spent $15 more, it would’ve lasted five years longer type of thing. So would you say that shortsightedness is part of cheap? And then longer term thinking falls a bit more in line with frugality? 

Jen: Yeah. Well, some of our resources aren’t just money. It’s also time. And so if you are having to buy new things more frequently, that’s a waste of time. Or you’re having to repair things more frequently, that’s waste of time.

And so looking into the future and thinking about your future, giving up that short sidedness that craves instant gratification is definitely part of the definition of frugality. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: Great. 

Linda: Our last house, when we moved to that house, we had pretty much gotten rid of all of our furniture and we were refurnishing this house. And so there was this tension of, okay, we need to budget this money so that we don’t spend half of it on a couch or whatever, which you could very easily do. You know, you walk into Restoration Hardware, you want it all. You know? And you can buy one thing there, or you could furnish the rest of your house.

But I remember we were going to put up these curtains. I had this specific vision in mind of what I wanted. And I found them at Anthropology. I was like, oh Anthropology, you guys know it’s not cheap there. But I was like, this is exactly what I want. And I remember trying to find them several different places, trying to find something similar.

I found some at Target that would work. And I thought, but I’m going to hate these in about a year because I’m going to be mad that I didn’t get the ones I wanted. And it was one of those moments. We still have those curtains, they’re still beautiful. They look amazing. Don’t you think? 

Bob: Yeah.

Linda: It’s like we would’ve probably replaced them two or three times by now, had we not just gotten this one. So yeah, it was one of those times where it made a little bit more sense to buy the nice more expensive item instead of buying the cheap one. 

Bob: Yeah, I think that’s the tricky thing is identifying those things because sometimes it’s not super clear on the front end.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: And I think, especially with you with clothes. Because like you’ll find something that you’ll wear the heck out of for 5-10 years. And then other times where you think you will, but you just won’t. 

Linda: Then I don’t. 

Bob: And, I think that applies to a lot of different things.

Linda: Right. 

What a no-spend challenge looks like

Bob: Yeah. So I want to come back to the no-spend challenge. I want to talk about this a little bit, because I think this is just a really interesting idea. I’ve used 30 day challenges to really implement some significant changes in my own life.

And I know the power of that, you know? I think Jen might have been talking about this. But there have been times where I have actually found it easier, maybe in regards to sugar. Like something that I like a little bit too much. I’m like, I’m just going to cut back for a month. And I actually really struggle with that. But if I just completely cut it out and have none, it’s actually easier. Which is so counterintuitive and doesn’t make any sense, but at least that’s the way my personality is wired. I’ve found that to be true.

So for somebody listening who’s like, all right this idea is intriguing. Give me some visuals. What does this look like practically? What did you do Jen, as you’re going through this? Of these 30 day challenges, are they one week? Are you having a cheat day? Like how is it laid out? How is it structured? Will you just go through some details for me?

The radical middle

Jen: Yeah. Well, first off I think it’s much easier to be extreme in wherever you are. And that’s why on our show, we’ve coined the term “the radical middle.” Because in any space, like to get popular, you kind of have to have this extreme view. To debate or to write on, or to get interviewed on. Being in the middle and figuring out what’s right for you and your unique situation is not sexy. And you know, nobody really cares.

So, to an extent it’s easier when you’re getting started to have these seasons of extreme living. And that’s kind of what the no-spend challenge was for me. It was a season to not have to think. Like at the end of the day, after I’ve made decisions all day, decision fatigue definitely sets in. I could have been good all day and at night, I just have no more energy and I’m ordering takeout.

Setting up the challenge

But if I set myself up for a month long challenge, and you could do it at whatever time fits you. Sometimes people are like, “oh, but I have a wedding in three weeks. So I can’t do a month long challenge.” Well, that’s fine. Then like skip that one day. You know you’re going to have to spend money on a wedding gift or whatever, like don’t cheap out and not get the wedding gift for your friends.

Like it’s not an excuse. But you can make certain exceptions and plans in your no-spend challenge. You could do it for a week, a weekend, a month, whatever suits your need in your season.

Getting creative and learning to say “no, but…”

And then just say no to everything. I think my favorite term is “no, but…” Because it’s like, no I can’t spend money, but let’s get creative and figure out how we can accomplish the same thing without spending. So do you want to go out to dinner? No. But do you want to come over and we can see if I have a frozen pizza? Or do you want to go shopping or get our nails done? No, but do you want to come over? We can paint our nails at home. We can watch Netflix or whatever.

So it gives you the opportunity to get creative to try and recreate all the things that you love while you’re spending money, but not spend money on them. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jen: For me, community is one of my core values. So I made it a point to find as many free activities during my no-spend challenge so that I could just fill my time either with side hustling or doing free events.

That was my goal. Anytime that I might be tempted to spend money, I would just fill it with free activities that really spoke to my values. We live in a city that thankfully has a lot going on, so that was easier for me. But it could also just be like finding people that maybe you’ve wanted to get to know, but haven’t had the opportunity to. And now’s your chance to start forming some new relationships. So strategically, I just like to fill my time as much as possible intentionally without spending money. That way I don’t give myself the opportunity to accidentally spend. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Expenses allowed in a no-spend challenge

Bob: Okay. I’m trying to paint the picture. Just to be clear for myself, and also for anybody else. So what this looks like for you, as defined by you, this no-spend challenge. You’re not buying stuff on Amazon. You’re not going out. You’re not ordering food out. But you are buying groceries, right? You’re still paying the bills. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Linda: Or toilet paper. 

Jen: Some people like to do a pantry challenge on their no-spend challenge. So they have enough stockpiled where they’re like, I’m actually not going to buy groceries for a month. I’m just going to eat out of my fridge, freezer and pantry. I’ve never kept that much on hand. I’ve always lived with smaller kitchens. So I would always buy fresh produce. But I would really try and dig into things that I had, like spices and stuff I’d have for a long time. And I try to dig into all those things and the freezer that might be in there a little too long. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Jen: But no, I’d always buy fresh produce. 

Should you celebrate at the end of the challenge?

Bob: Okay. So if you do this for a month, like after that month, do you take a vacation of some sort where it’s like, all right, it’s time to celebrate. We just kicked butt for a month!

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Bob: Now we’re going to go out to dinner. How do you handle that? 

Jen: So… 

Jill: That’s where a lot of people can get definitely… 

Linda: A little too crazy? 

Jill: …derailed. Because I think a big point of the no-spend challenge is to jump start some savings.

All of it is a learning process

Jill: Of course, there is always a lot of learning and discovery that happens, even if we don’t do it perfectly. And we won’t. Especially if this is your first, second, third time trying.

There will be days where you make a mistake and you buy something. But all of it is learning. All of it is useful and beneficial to helping us understand ourselves. So at the end, it’s just as important to have preparations for the back end as it is for the front end. Right?

Deciding what to spend money on

So before you go into a no-spend challenge, you’re going to consider what are the things that are okay to spend on. Hopefully your mortgage (if you have one), your bills, the things that are necessary for survival. And what are you not going to spend on. People come up with all sorts of rules. There’s freedom and flexibility in it. But certainly if it’s your first time, consider your discretionary spending. Cut your subscriptions. Feel free to slice and dice as much as possible.

What is your “why?”

Jill: But then also consider what’s going to happen at the end. If you have a why for the no-spend challenge from the beginning of jump. Do you want to start saving or learn about your spending habits? Or maybe putting “X” amount of dollars away for your “why,” that is going to really help on the back end to not derail all of the progress and learning.

End of challenge action and reflection

Jill: And so the next step is going to be, do the thing that you had hoped you could do at the onset of this. Was it a savings goal? Was it to learn about your spending habits? Is it to put a certain amount of money away for the holidays? Then do that and utilize all the things that you just learned in your no-spend challenge to celebrate. Challenge yourself, to celebrate for free. Or already have set aside a little bit of cash to be able to go out for dinner, decide ahead of time what that’s going to be.

Don’t let yourself be surprised by an impulse decision where now everything that you just worked so hard for is completely down the tubes. So at the tail end be sure you’re reflecting. And we often forget that with anything that we do. To pause, reflect, look back, consider what we learned. It is hard work, but that is part of the challenge.

What did you learn?

Jill: Once you’ve done it. What did you learn? What did you learn about yourself? Even in the areas where you might have considered it to be a failure. None of it is a failure when we’re looking at this, as far as personal growth, even if you failed the entire thing. What does that show you about yourself? 

What do you now know? What would you want to do different in the future? So that reflection piece is huge. Definitely celebrating, but not in a way that’s going to sabotage you or not be beneficial for you overall. 

Rewarding yourself

Jen: Personally, I would get a nice latte after I completed a challenge. That’s just my thing though. I love like getting coffee, like lattes out. 

Linda: Me too. 

Jen: And so that would be my reward after a month of being really good. I would get my latte. And it would be more special than just the mindless lattes I would get, because I drove past the coffee drive thru. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Jen: Then it was like really special after not spending money on one for a month. And I was like, I want to feel like this all the time when I get a latte that I really like. And I don’t want to waste my time getting lattes I don’t like. I want to get the ones that, even if they’re a little more expensive, are from the really good coffee shops. So that’s how I came out of my challenge and what I learned from it.

First time tips for doing a challenge

Bob: I love that. So I’m just, I’m processing. I’m thinking through all these pieces on this. This is really good. Okay. Let’s answer this. What tips do you have for someone doing this the first time? Who’s like, I don’t know what this is going to be. Like. I don’t know how hard this is going to be. I don’t know what to expect. Like what would you tell to somebody in that situation? 

Jen: Yeah. So planning is essential. Like you don’t just listen to this episode and be like, oh, I’m going to start a no been challenge today. Because it will not go well. So plan, it will not go the way you think it will go.

Linda: Right? 

Jen: Yeah. So planning is definitely essential. If you’re the kind of person that doesn’t want to buy groceries on the challenge, make sure that you have enough food. Or if you want to buy some groceries, make a meal plan for the whole month. You can do that because you know, you’re not going to be getting takeout. Give yourself a lot of grace too, in your planning.

Approaching the end of a challenge

Jen: Know that near the end of the challenge, you are not going to be wanting to make recipes from the feed. You’re going to be doing quesadillas, grilled cheese spaghetti with cheese on top, like many cheese. 

Jill: Lots of cheese. 

Jen: Lot of cheeses. 

Jill: So much cheeses.

Jen: Yeah. So like near the end, you’re going to need that comfort, real easy comfort food. So give yourself grace, don’t expect more from yourself than you can give. And if you go in with your low expectations, you will be pleasantly surprised. It will still be super difficult. But the meal plan is essential. Making sure that you’re stocked on household stuff.

So make sure you’re not at the end of your toothpaste. And you’re like, oh no now I have to buy toothpaste on my no-spend challenge. So just pay attention to the things around your house. And then while you’re on the no-spend challenge, give yourself grace when things pop up that there’s no way you could have planned for. Like, when your kid comes up with a permission slip and be like, I need $20 for this field trip today. And I’ve had the permission slip for three weeks, but I’m just giving it to you the day before. 

Linda: Right. 

Jen: Give yourself grace for that. That is not a failure. That’s just life. Life just happens. And it’s going to happen while you’re on your no-spend challenge. So when you go… 

Linda: Or you tell that kid, forget it. You’re not going. 

Jen: Right? Then they will love your no-spend challenge. They will be totally on board with all your other financial endeavors. It will be flawless. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jen: So yeah, the planning and the mindset. The realistic and grace mindset, I think are the two most important things that I would take into it.

Make the rules

Jill: And then making rules. I think what can be really helpful for first timers is to look at what are the things you do typically spend money on. And again, you’re going to want to keep the things that keep the lights on. You’re going to still be paying your electric bill your water, bill, your housing, some sort of food. Again, if you’re not buying food, then have a plan for food or have an amount of money that you’re okay with spending for those 30 days on food. And from there cut everything else. So we’re thinking non-essentials versus essentials. Some of the way that you can get a handle on that is by looking back at your spending and your bills.

Out of all of that, decide what am I going to cut? And start to think, what am I going to replace that with that’s free? Doing a no-spend challenge there’s not longevity in this. We are not saying, oh, then this will become the way that you live your life. Again, it’s to jumpstart savings. It’s for learning it’s for identifying habits . And so engaging in it for that time, for the purpose that you’ve set out to accomplish.

Bob: Yeah. 

Discipline is important

Linda: I posted this on our Instagram feed, it says, “nobody wants to tell you why discipline is so important. It’s the strongest form of self love. It is ignoring current pleasures for bigger rewards to come. It’s loving yourself enough to give yourself everything you’ve ever wanted.” And I just thought that was so interesting. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Linda: You brought in this element of learning things about yourself. If you couldn’t make it the whole time. Or what did you miss the most? I mean, there’s something there about learning things that you didn’t ever realize before, because you’d never been put in that position. That I think brings you to, all right what’s really important to me? And how can I do more of that and cut out some of the other things. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Linda: And where do I need to just tell myself “no” more often, you know?

Rice and beans

Bob: It reminds me of, I remember Tim Ferris talking about this stoic idea of, and I think Tim still does this, where he like takes three days out of a month and just eats rice and beans, just to remind himself that he can do that. And it’s actually empowering to be reminded that I can survive on that. And so like all the extra is just extra. I think that’s a healthy thing to just kinda be aware of that. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Results of Jen’s no-spend challenge

Bob: But anyway, all right. So I want to talk numbers a little bit. So Jen, what did this look like for you?

I’d love to hear some numbers in terms of when you first started doing this. How much were you saving that first month? Was it more or less than you thought? Because you paid off like what, 70 something thousand dollars? And this was the big part of it, right? 

Jen: Yeah. So we paid off $78,000 in two years. Which was less than half the time we thought it was going to take. We thought it would take five years. And I really do think this mindset shift and this lifestyle shift did help in speeding that up. And it also gave me more time to pursue things that would earn me more money.

Bob: Mm-hmm. 

Jen: Whereas I would’ve been out spending money, instead I spent my time making money. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jen: So that it just had this dual impact. I can’t remember the numbers, like specific numbers off the bat. But because of this, we were able to transition to living off just one income. And that’s pretty much how we’ve lived our life. Ever since then we’ve always lived on one income. And it was because we, just like said no to lifestyle inflation and tried to be intentional with the spending.

Savings results of a no-spend challenge

Bob: Yeah. So, for somebody listening and they’re thinking, all right, I’m wondering if I do this, am I going to save like a hundred dollars this month? Or am I going to save closer to a thousand dollars this month? In your experience, average middle class American family, like what are they closer to?

Jen: Well, gosh, I know different studies have said different things about the average American, like what they spend in non-essentials every month. And sometimes it’s over like a thousand dollars. So it could be, I mean, if that’s what you’re spending, then that’s how much you can save. But I know a lot of our listeners are living on smaller incomes and they’re looking towards frugality to be something to kind of help them over the hump. 

Bob: Yes. 

Jen: So then in that case it could be a couple hundred dollars. But I think as a percentage of your income and spending it could be massive if you’re talking percentage wise. Because I think, most of the time, we kind of try to live at 50%. Or at least that’s what the 50, 20, 30 budget kind of recommends (check out our Real Money Method budgeting course!). I mean, you could kind of predict it to be something around there if you want to kind of get a ballpark prediction. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Mm. 

Buying the book

Bob: Yeah. That’s crazy to think about. All right. Well, that’s really powerful. So yeah, this is really great. And people can find out a whole lot more about this whole idea by grabbing your book, right? 

Jen: Yes. 

Bob: The No-Spend Challenge Guide over at Amazon and probably other places, right? 

Jen: Yeah. Over on Amazon. And. it’s the only one named that long name. So it’s not hard to find. 

Bob: Great. Oh, go ahead. 

50/20/30 budget

Linda: Wait, let me just ask the question that everybody else might be asking. 

Bob: Okay. 

Linda: What is 50, 20, 30?

Jen: Oh, sorry. The 50, 20, 30 budget is a method for budgeting where you spend 50% on essentials, 30% on non-essentials and then I think 20% on savings. I might be mixing the 30, 20, but I’m pretty sure that’s it. And it’s not my favorite budgeting method, because I think incomes vary so widely that… 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Jen: It’s maybe if you’re at the average or median American income it might be feasible. But if you’re in a high cost of living area, that may not be right for you. Your essentials may be closer to 60 or 70%. So it’s just kinda like a standard guideline that’s given. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Gotcha. Okay. 

Bob: That’s great. 

Linda: All right. So sorry about that. 

The Frugal Friends

Bob: Well, yeah, I was just saying, yeah, so people can find you at your podcast, Frugal Friends Podcast, right? 

Jill: That’s correct anywhere you listen to podcasts and Frugal Friends Podcast on Instagram and Facebook, we’re all over the place. 

Linda: Everywhere.

Bob: Awesome. Love it. All right. Well, I appreciate you guys coming on. This was a great conversation. Enjoyed this. I think we need to figure out… we need to put No-Spend Challenge. That’s what we’re going to do. Sound good? 

Jill: We love it when our spouses recommend what we need. 

Bob: Exactly. 

Linda: Oh my gosh. 

Bob: She’s got plenty of challenges for me. Don’t worry. 

Jill: I don’t know if we left you with the right takeaway, but I’m glad to be here. Thanks for having us. 

Jen: Yes. Thanks for having us. 

Bob: Yeah. All right. Take care. 

The Bubble Taurus & the lessons learned

October 31, 2022 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

(The following is an abbreviated transcription from a video Linda and I recorded. Please excuse any typos or errors.)

This is the story behind the infamous Bubble Taurus (as referenced in Chapter 9 of our book Simple Money, Rich Life) and 3 life-changing lessons that I learned.

Now, you may have heard me talk about this in the past. But, I want to go in depth and let you know what a Bubble Taurus actually is and why it is infamous.

I will also let you in on the key thing that has been important for me to really get ahead financially. In which, I think can serve all of us well in many aspects of life.

In this article I have some hard questions for you, too. Have you pondered where you put your identity? Do you put too much emphasis on the material? How much do you care about what others think of you?

Now before we get into this I wanted to let you know that, Linda and I recorded our discussion that you can listen to on our Podcast below. But, if you would rather read the full transcription, you can do so here in this article!

Is this a requirement for Boomers?

Bob: So this is a lean back lay back episode. We are leaning back in our chairs. You’re leaning back?

Linda: I’m trying to, it’s kinda nice sitting up straight.

Bob: But I wonder if we get like recliners and like put two of those old school boomer rec recliners. Why is it a requirement for baby boomers to have recliners?

Linda: Recliners… my parents don’t have one. 

Bob: Yeah, they do. 

Linda: Yes, they do. 

Bob: They have couches with recliners built in. 

Linda: But they don’t ever sit in those. 

Bob: My parents, 

Linda: Your parents though. 

Bob: Still are rocking both of those leather recliners. 

Linda: They got rid of the couch and they were like let’s just get recliners. 

Bob: They have two recliners. 

Linda: They have those giant mugs from the from the gas station (here’s 75 gas saving tips to save at the pump!).

Bob: They have their 64 ounce or 150 ounce mug.

Linda: Oh, look at my giant drink.

Bob: Anyway, we are very much millennials.  Isn’t it interesting though, that like, just generationally, no one has… 

Linda: We are millennials by the skin of our teeth. 

Bob: Yeah. But like generationally isn’t it interesting that like, where did the recliners go? Why is that not a thing? 

Linda: They’re so ugly. 

Bob: I know, but why is that not a thing? 

Linda: Because they’re so ugly. 

Bob: Well, some people probably don’t like it or like ’em, and they don’t think they’re ugly. 

Linda: I feel like as design became more accessible, like good design became more accessible through Ikea and stuff like that.

Bob: There have to be decent looking recliners, all of them aren’t ugly. Anyway. 

Linda: I know.

Bob: If you have a good looking recliner, you should send us a pic. 

Linda: Send us a picture. 

Bob: Tag us an Instagram. 

Linda: If you’ve ever seen a good looking one. 

Bob: There are probably plenty of people who are listening still like I have a recliner it’s super comfortable, anyway. 

Linda: That’s what they all say. It’s so comfortable. 

Bob: No, and I… 

Linda: Which we get. 

Bob: I still love that. I’m not going to lie. 

Linda: I actually don’t like the recliners. I feel like they hit me my head the wrong way. Maybe it’s because I just never broke one in, but you got to break one in yourself. I don’t know. 

Bob: So we are leaning back on plastic chairs.

Linda: Ugh. I’ve been struggling. My back is struggling. 

Bob: And the reason why, well… yeah, Linda’s back is hurting her a little bit. 

Linda: Why don’t you sit up straight though? 

Bob: Nope. Nope. This is a lean back episode. 

Linda: Gosh. 

Bob: So anyway, that was a long kind of introduction. I guess. 

Linda: That was a really long introduction. A whole lot of information that they don’t care anything about.

Bob: I don’t know somebody somebody’s going to be excited about this. 

Linda: I’m sorry. I’m going to fix my hair. 

Bob: Somebody is going to be sending us a picture of their recliner. Letting us know how comfortable they are.

The Bubble Taurus

Bob: But today we’re talking about the Bubble Taurus. 

Linda: The Bubble Taurus. 

Bob: Some of you know what the Bubble Taurus is, cause the Bubble Taurus is…

Linda: It’s in the book.

Bob: It’s a character in our lives. It is affectionately known as the Bubble Taurus. This is from chapter nine of our book. 

Linda: Oh, let’s see if I can find that. 

Bob: Where we tell that where we tell the story of the Bubble Taurus. So I will quickly tell you the story of the Bubble Taurus in case you haven’t read our book, Simple Money, Rich Life. But the story is better in that because I can write and get all the details out better than I can tell it, but. 

Linda: Let’s see, we’ll give you photo of Bob and the Taurus.

Bob: And so for anyone listening, who can’t see this… 

Linda: Trying to see, there you go.

Bob: The Bubble Taurus. It was that era in the nineties where they made those, if anybody remembers the Tauruses, remember how they used to be squared off? And then they were like, whoa, we’re going to turn this thing into all rounded and basically into this bubble. 

Linda: I don’t even remember the square Tauruses. 

Bob: Oh yeah. Before that, there was a square Tauruses and they went to the more rounded shape. It’s like, let’s turn it into a bubble. And so that’s why I call it the “Bubble Taurus.”

Do not pass up a good “insurance policy”

Bob: So here’s where we were. We were early in our marriage. This is whatever, 15, 14 years ago at this point, right? 

Linda: Oh yeah. 

Bob: And we have two cars. We have two old cars at that point. 

Linda: I mean, not super old, but. 

Bob: Probably what, eight years old and six years old or something? 

Linda: Maybe something like. 

Bob: But they were both fairly unreliable cars. And so for that reason, I’ll just say that they were old because they were kind of unreliable and unpredictable. We didn’t really know what was going to happen. 

Linda: Yeah. 

The great opportunity

Bob: And so my sister, Lauren, who owned this Bubble Taurus she was getting rid of, she was going to go trade into a dealer. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: And buy a new car. And I said, how much is the dealer going to pay you for it? And she’s like a thousand dollars. I’m like, no, don’t give it to them, give it to me. I’ll buy it off you for a thousand dollars. And so I went and gave her a thousand dollars to buy this Bubble Taurus which was going to be a third car for us, which… 

Linda: I love the way you tell this story. It’s so indicative of your relationship with her at that point before. You guys are mellowed out now. But you’re like, no, don’t give it to them. Give it to me. Sell it to me. I’ll buy that for a thousand dollars. And she’s like, oh, okay. And she just does it. She didn’t even look to see if she could get more for it. She was like, oh, okay. Bob wants it, I have to sell it to them. 

Bob: Well, no, she was going to give it to them. Like if she wanted to give it away for a thousand dollars, like I will take it. Don’t give it to the dealer. Anyway, so we can get into that later.

Having foresight to benefit your financial future

Bob: But so the reason I did this, I was a very calculated. It was a well thought out decision. I didn’t… well, you never know how it’s going to play out. But at the time again, we had two older cars that were starting to become more unreliable. And I thought, and I knew, that she had taken meticulous care of this car. I knew it was a really good car. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: And I knew that if one of our cars, the engine blew or the transmission blew or something like that, it was basically going to be totaled.

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: I knew that there’s no way I’m going to be able to spend a thousand dollars and quickly find a car as reliable as hers.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: And so I thought, you know what? We could spend a thousand dollars on this car, buy this as an insurance policy, just in case one of our other cars blows up. And anyway, so that was kinda the logic behind this purpose. 

Linda: So Bob comes to me and he says, “I want to buy Lauren’s car. The dealer’s going to buy it from her for a thousand dollars, but I convinced her to let us buy it from her for a thousand dollars.” And I was like, we already have two cars. Can I just have that thousand dollars? Like I could do some damage with that. And Bob’s like, no, this is an insurance policy.

Bob: It was, yeah, it was an investment. 

Linda: Right. But you were like, this is a really good insurance policy. You were really convincing. 

Bob: I mean, it was a gamble to some extent. But anyway. 

Linda: Move along…

Was the gamble worth it?

Bob: How’d it play out? Was it a terrible decision, or not? 

Linda: Unfortunately for me. No. Fortunately for me, it ended up being a really good decision because Bob’s car broke down. 

Bob: Yeah. What a year? 

Linda: Couple months later? 

Bob: Yeah, it wasn’t that much longer. The engine completely blew, blew a head gasket. I mean and in… 

Linda: Oh my gosh. And it was like, here you go. You can pay like $6,000 to fix this. I think you ended up selling it to a mechanic for 500 bucks or something. 

Bob: Yeah, no, it was at the shop. We had to tow it to the dealer and he said the head gasket was blown. You basically had to replace the entire engine. 

Linda: So this was back… I mean, we just did not have a lot of money. Bob was getting ready to quit his job. Not quit, but be laid off at his job. And so his car breaks down. We’re just not make pulling in a lot of money. And he goes to a friend who is like have you ever towed a car before? And he’s like… 

Bob: Did we do that? 

Linda: Remember, you talked to John and he was like, I’ve towed a car before. I’ve also pushed a car before. Like, go from behind and just one car push the other car.

Bob: Did we actually do that? 

Linda: No, I don’t remember what we did. I think we ended up getting it to start or something. I can’t remember. It was like you left it for a day, and then it started back up. And so you drove it to a place and…

Bob: No, that was, that was the Bubble Taurus later on. 

Linda: That was when it ran outta gas. Right? 

Bob: I don’t know. Anyway, too many things. 

Linda: There are a lot. 

Bob: All this to say it ended up working out really well because my car blew up and then I began driving around this Bubble Taurus. So I wanted to talk. This is a long, long, long intro. 

Linda: Long way get there but, let’s go. 

Lessons learned from the Bubble Taurus

Bob: Let’s get to the point of all this. I want to talk about some of the lessons that I learned from driving around this Bubble Taurus.

Linda: Okay. 

Bob: So then at that point, the car was probably 11-12 years old. One of the ugliest cars I had ever seen in my life. And I spent three years driving this thing around. And I learned some, I don’t know, I think pretty important lessons through this.

Linda: Do we own seedtime.com/bubble-taurus, so people can just go and look at this car?

Bob: We do need to make some link to that. So here’s what we’ll do. We’ll make a link: seedtime.com/bubble.

Linda: Make a note. 

Bob: We’ll create that. You can go take a look at it if you want. Look at me and the Bubble Taurus all you want. So I’ll go ahead and set that URL up so anybody can check it out. Okay, let’s get into the lessons I learned.

Lesson #1: Patience

Bob: So the first lesson I learned in this whole thing, you know, because God used this to help me develop things in me. And so one of them was patience because I did not want to be driving this car, you know? It was a good financial move for us to create this as some sort of insurance policy for the worst case scenario, which kind of did happen. But I didn’t want to be driving this car around. I was embarrassed by it. It was really old and ugly. And the fact of the matter is, like we began doing better and better financially where we didn’t really need to do that.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: We definitely didn’t need to do that. But I had this goal. I wanted to buy our next car with cash. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: And so I had the option of all right, do I run out and get a loan? Buy a brand new car, or newer car, that I really want right now? 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: Or, am I patient until we can actually save up enough to buy our next car with cash? 

Linda: Which our other car at that time was a Honda Fit. 

Bob: Mm-hmm. 

Linda: Which we called it the “mini minivan.” Because, it looks like a minivan but it was just… tiny. 

Bob: No disrespect to anybody who owns a Honda Fit. But it also is not the best looking car in the world. 

Linda: Not the best looking car for sure. But, that car was great though. 

Bob: But probably the best car we’ve ever owned. Ever. 

Linda: Yeah. I will agree because you could fit so much in that car. 

Bob: You could fit so much in it. 

Linda: It surprising how roomy it was. 

Bob: The most reliable car by far that we’ve ever owned.

Linda: Oh my gosh. 

Bob: 150,000 miles. We drove that thing over 10 years. And other than light bulbs, we replaced a bunch of light bulbs in it, but no mechanical issues. It was just amazing. 

Linda: Yeah. That was a really good car. 

Bob: It was a great car. So anyway, the patience component. This was an important lesson that I feel like God taught me during this. Because the fact of the matter is, if you can’t learn to wait for the things that you want, like you are never going to get ahead financially. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: This is just something that all of us have to learn. And honestly, I think we just continue to learn on deeper and more significant levels. Everything good in life requires patience. And the people who have no patience and are like, I gotta have it now. I gotta have it now. They miss out on so much good stuff in life. And so that was a really important thing that God kind of used. 

Lesson #2: Humility

Bob: Another lesson that I learned from this experience was humility.

Linda: Boy, did we. 

Bob: And you drove it some. But I mean, I felt like I drove it more. 

Linda: I didn’t drive it a lot. But yeah, it was kind of funny driving that thing around. Because I think we live in an age where image is everything. Where it’s like, you got to look a certain way. You got to have a certain things. And it’s interesting when you are in the position of not looking a certain way.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: And you can either take that and it makes you feel like terrible about yourself or like stupid or embarrassed or whatever. Or, you can take it and realize this doesn’t define me. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Lesson #3: Identity

Linda: This doesn’t really say who I am. It’s just a temporary thing. 

Bob: Yeah. And that leads to the third lesson. 

Linda: Which it’s all temporary when we’re really thinking about it.

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: It’s like we can’t take any of it with us. So good or bad, super cool design or super ugly design… it’s not going with us to heaven. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: But what’s happening inside our hearts is going with us to heaven. So that’s what we need to be constantly purifying that. And constantly looking at what is on the inside of us to make sure that it’s lining up with who God has created us to be and how he wants us to be, you know? 

Bob: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. So third lesson is just in identity. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: This ties into what you’re saying. But I had to ask myself, am I going to define myself? Or, am I going to care that other people are defining me by the car that I’m driving?

And this is such a dangerous thing. Because again, one of the reasons that I don’t use the term net worth, but use assets under management instead is because I just don’t want my identity be tied up in any specific number. And I think it’s the same way with our cars. There’s so many people that allow their car to become their identity.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: You know? Either direction. But I think a lot of people think “I drive a really nice car, and therefore I feel better about myself.”

Linda: Right. 

Bob: I feel more important. I can convince other people that I’m important because I drive a really nice car.

Linda: Right. Yeah. 

Bob: And who am I, if I don’t have that anymore?

Linda: Well, even like your dad worked in the union and it was really not cool to drive a foreign car. 

Bob: Not only not cool, but… 

Linda: You were not allowed to in your house, right? 

Bob: Oh my gosh. Yeah. 

Linda: To have like a Honda? You had to have a Ford. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: I mean, it’s just interesting. How we tie up our identity in these things, that do they really matter? I mean, it’s a good question to ask. 

Bob: Yeah. 

God created us to see the beautiful

Linda: Because there’s a side of it that is, you know, God created us to see things that are beautiful. I think about the sunsets he created and how they’re always changing. They’re different every single day. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: God didn’t have to do that. There are lightning bugs and it specifically in the… What is it, The Smoky Mountains? 

Bob: Oh, yeah. 

Linda: That light up simultaneously only for like a week in June, or something like this. 

Bob: Yeah. Sometime in the Summer.

Linda: God did not have to do that, but he chose to do that because he wanted us to be able to see something visually and realize how beautiful it was and what a cool thing it was, you know? So there’s part of me, that’s like, it’s okay to enjoy the good design, right? 

Bob: Of course, absolutely. 

Linda: But, I think that there is an aspect of thought in there. 

Bob: But, when we put our identity in it… 

Linda: Yes. 

Bob: And like, I have to have this or else, it would’ve… 

Linda: Or it changes who I am. 

Bob: Yeah. And that was what part of what God, I feel like helped break out of me by having me drive this old hunk of junk car for three years. 

Linda: Right. 

Bob: Is getting to the point where I was comfortable in who I am in Him. Regardless of whether I was driving a nice car or an old junker car. Because I don’t want my identity, you know, so if I’m driving a Rolls Royce, I don’t want my identity to be in that.

Linda: Right. 

Bob: I don’t want me to feel more important than someone else because I’m driving that. Or to feel like I have to do this so that people think I’m a certain thing because of that. And at the same time, if I’m driving a junker again, I don’t want to feel less than anyone else. 

Linda: Right. 

Bob: Because of that, you know?

The little incident

Linda: Well, and we did just have our car we had gotten in a little accident. And we drove around with this… 

Bob: It was Bob’s fault. 

Linda: Ding in our car, it was a big ding.

Bob: It was a big old dent. 

Linda: It’s kind of, I would like to call it my car. And the only reason is because it’s minivan and I was driving that thing around for probably six months with that ding in it. Because we were trying to sort out, we were trying to sort out some things before we got it fixed.

Bob: Well, yeah, the short… 

Linda: And it dawned on me, all these people that are seeing that ding in that car and they’re like “mm-hmm, woman driver. Can’t trust a woman driver.” And it was not my fault.

I was like, am I secure enough in who I am? And though what the truth actually is that I can drive this thing around. Or, is this just going to really bother me? And I finally just decided, I just don’t care what people think about me. They can think I’m a terrible driver. But the fact is, I didn’t do that. 

Bob: Yeah, it was definitely me. 

Linda: You are a terrible driver. I’m just kidding. That’s just what it seemed I was implying. So I just said it out loud. But no, Bob’s a great driver. 

Bob: I am a great driver. Thank you.

Linda: But you did make a mistake. 

Bob: I did. Yeah, I definitely made a mistake. And we had a big old dent in the back of our van. And the reason… 

Linda: And then you tried to fix it and it looked even worse. 

Bob: Oh yeah. 

Linda: Bob was like, I wonder if I could do this myself? And it was so much worse.

Bob: I’m a DIYer. And so I’m like, well… 

Linda: We had to get it fixed either way. 

Bob: We got a quote for it and they wanted to charge $3,100 to fix it. Andwe’re getting ready to sell it. Like we’re trying to get rid of this thing. So, I don’t want to put $3,000 into it if we’re about to sell it. 

Linda: Right. 

Bob: And so I’m like, I’m just going to see if I can hammer that thing out with the hammer.

Linda: Because like in our mind, we are either going to fix it ourselves or we’re going to have to pay it to get it fixed. So if you ruin it… 

Bob: It was going to work either way. 

Linda: It’s going to either way. And it was the thing where you had to replace the whole panel. Like it wasn’t like whatever damage we did wasn’t going to make it any worse.

Bob: Yeah, exactly. So I gave it a go and it did not work. 

Linda: Made it worse. 

Bob: Made it worse. But it took us a long time because I was not wanting to spend $3,000. But we ended up actually finding a cheaper solution. So that was good. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: But, anyway. All this to say…

Linda: Anyway, all this to say. 

Thankful for that season with the Taurus

Bob: I’m really thankful for that season with the Taurus.

Linda: Yeah. Because honestly I feel like driving around that van, I was kind of like I’ve driven an uglier thing. 

Bob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Linda: I mean a minivan at least is a minivan. But a mini minivan it’s like… 

Bob: Mini minivan. 

Linda: Why would you make a car that looks like a minivan, but it’s not at a minivan? Like that is just such a funny concept. Isn’t it? 

Podcast Review

Bob: Yeah. All right. Let’s go ahead and read a review.  

Linda: All right. Let’s see what we got here. This one is titled one of my favorites. 

Bob: I like it already.

Linda: From faithful budgeter. Ooh…

“I love this podcast. It’s full of practical financial advice from a Christian perspective. I enjoy listening to Bob speak and the episodes with his wife Linda, that’s me, are especially great. I’ve found every episode helpful. But a couple that stood out to were the ones on finding your purpose and handling financial disagreements with your spouse. Definitely give it a listen.”

Bob: Awesome. 

Linda: Awesome. 

Bob: Love that. So your action item for the day, because we’ve been doing this. I’ve enjoyed just kind of giving you guys homework.

Linda: Yeah.

Bob: Like why not? 

Linda: So bang up your car and see if it’s see if you can still feel good about yourself driving around. We’ll come hit it for you with our car. Our car doesn’t matter at this point. 

Reader paid off $16K of debt just by doing this…

Bob: Oh actually real quick. I want to read something. So somebody read chapter nine in the book where I talk about this Bubble Taurus and he reached out, and I love this.

This is a guy named Josh, he said,

“I want to tell you how much you’ve inspired me while I haven’t gotten the spending plan (Real Money Method) in place. Yet our family owned a 2017 Honda Odyssey. Our kids are getting older, we just didn’t need the minivan. I heard your story about the Bubble Taurus, felt like God was telling me to sell the minivan, pay off debt and buy something cheaper.”

Linda: Wow. 

Bob: And so he said “this week, God brought another believer to our Odyssey. Then I connected with another believer and bought a 2009 Honda Fit.”

Linda: No. 

Bob: Yes. So he said “I was able to leverage the assets of the Odyssey and pay off $16,000 of debt.”

Linda: Wow. 

Bob: That’s cool.

Linda: I think we bought a 2007 Fit. 

Bob: Yeah, we had an ’07.. 

Linda: I mean….

Bob: But, but this is so cool. Like this is powerful, you know? So, so even like we were talking about these three lessons here. But, like, you actually save a lot of money too. 

Linda: So he had the minivan and then he bought a mini minivan. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: This is awesome. 

Bob: But $16,000 of debt by changing the car that you drive.

Linda: That is amazing. 

Bob: It’s so powerful. That’s really awesome. And I love that. 

Linda: And that really is such a good car. 

Bob: It is a great car.

Linda: Like if…

Bob: What, you want an another one? 

Linda: I mean, maybe. I don’t think we can fit our three kids in it. But, maybe we could as soon as all the kids are without a booster. 

Bob: Well let’s do it. Let’s sell our minivan and get… Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if we can get all the car seats. You’re right. Anyway. All right.

Your homework

Bob: So your homework for today is to sell your car. That’s it? Whatever it is, just sell it and get something cheaper. 

Linda: Just sell it. 

Bob: No, but do take this into consideration next time you’re buying a car. Or, maybe be like Josh and maybe pay off 10, 15, $20,000 of debt just by driving something a little bit older. 

Linda: That’s just fascinating, isn’t it? 

Advice from my millionaire mentor

Bob: You know, because I’ll remind you of what my millionaire mentor told me, that I’ve just never forgotten. He said there’s two areas where most Americans waste money: eating out and the cars that they drive. 

Linda: Wow. 

Bob: And if you can master both of those two things, you set yourself up for such a tremendous amount of financial success. And it’s so true. Like the decisions that we make around our cars have such a huge impact on our overall financial success.

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: So anyway, that’s a thought for the day. Hope you have a good one. 

Linda: Yep. 

Bob: We’ll see you soon. 

Linda: See ya.

“The plan” crypto bot review (5 months later & my results)

December 8, 2022 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

I recently did a review of my results of this new Crypto bots experiment using “The Plan” by Dan Hollings that I’ve been doing for the last 5 months.

You can watch the full video below or keep reading for the transcription.

(The following is an abbreviated transcription from a video I recorded on May 5th, 2022. Scroll to see my most recent update. Please excuse any typos or errors.)

Today I want to talk about something pretty interesting. I want to share how I’m making about $400 a month passive income from crypto bots on a relatively small investment. And if you’re part of the SeedTime community and have been paying attention at all, you know, that I’m working towards having a full-time passive income by 2024.

I’m in the phase of trying a lot of stuff out and experimenting with a lot of different stuff and this is an experiment that I’ve actually been working on for about five months. So I want to take you into my account and show you exactly how this works, exactly what I’ve been doing and what kind of results I’ve been getting from it.

The plan bot trading disclaimer 🙂

Before we dive in, I have to say that this is not financial advice for you. I’m not your financial advisor and we’re talking about cryptocurrency. So in case you don’t know, this is risky. You can lose money with any investment but cryptocurrency is probably one of the more risky investments that you can make.

But I will say that I’ve experimented with a lot of different crypto stuff over the last five months or so and I think this is one of the least risky ways to invest in crypto.

But the point is that you can lose money. You have to know that upfront. There’s no investment that is a guarantee that you will not lose money. So you have to know that this is cryptocurrency and there’s definitely risk involved. So I just want to make sure we are on the same page with that before we dive deeper into this.

What is this crypto bot experiment?

Passive income crypto bots?

Ok so let’s break down The Plan cryptocurrency bot trading thing. Explaining what’s actually happening here and what we’re doing before I dive into our account – what I am doing with this method is I am setting up bots that are automatically trading. It’s called grid trading. So they are automatically trading at different points as the price of a specific cryptocurrency goes up or down. And so it’s completely passive, which I absolutely love.

With this method, you’re profiting off of the volatility of crypto. We all know crypto is very volatile. It’s going up and down a lot, and that’s what makes this work. If crypto wasn’t volatile, this wouldn’t work at all but because it is, we can set up little automated bots that are constantly buying and selling for us as the market moves up and down a little bit. And each time they do, we make just a little bit of money.

A lot of these trades that they are making for me, I might only be making $.25 or $.50, but when it’s making hundreds or thousands of trades, that begins to add up. This is a unique approach to investing in crypto that I haven’t seen before at all.

Let’s take a look at my crypto bots

The Plan crypto bots actual results
The Plan crypto bots results

This is my Bitsgap account, and this is the actual trading software that I’m using to make all these trades. I have two bots set up and what’s happening here is all the little dots are all the grid lines. So each time you see a little dot, it’s a buy or sell. This is called grid trading and what we’re doing is we’re setting up a whole bunch of buy and sell lines, spread out just a little bit all throughout here for these different prices.

You can see the red lines and the green lines. When we set up one of these bots, we’re setting up all these different buy and sell orders at different prices all throughout and then, as the price of the coin goes up and down, each time it’ll buy some or it’ll sell some and then each time it sells some, I’m making just a little bit of money.

The plan crypto course

The plan crypto bots actual trades
Each of the actual trades being made by the bots

On all of the different buy and sell orders, the amount of profit I’m making is about $.09 on each of them and there’s about 633 transactions, most of them being sell orders so I’m making about $.09 each time. So for the one that has been up for a little less than 4 days, it’s yielded me $20.

And again, this was off about a $900 investment in 20 days, which if it continues at this rate that comes out to $180 or something in one month off of $900. So that’s the gist of how this one has been performing.

Results from one of my crypto bots

The other one you see is Ethereum/USDT. You’ve probably heard of Ethereum and USDT is a stable coin. So this is a coin pairing and those two are working together. It’s alternating between the two, either buying Ethereum and trading that for USDT or doing the opposite. And this particular one I’ve had open for about two months and a day, and it’s earned me $449. I think it was about a $5,000 investment, which comes out to an 8.5% return over two months.

This continues to be hard for me to wrap my brain around because I come from the financial world where if you’re making more than 10% per year, you should be really, really happy, you know? And no doubt, in crypto there’s a lot of volatility, but I’m really excited about the potential of this. And like I said, I’ve been doing this for five months now and experimenting with it and I’ve opened some bots and close some bots and I’ve seen the market go up and I’ve seen the market come down. In November and December, we saw the market dropped quite a bit. And that was interesting for me to watch and I’m really glad I got to experience it.

The bot profit is what the bot has actually earned. So in this case, the GMT bot has earned $20 in the three days that has been open, the ETH/USDT one has earned about $450 in the two months it’s been opened. So this is actual earnings that I have. So, because it sold it, this money has now added to my account so I can just leave these bots and just let them keep running and it’s just going to be spitting little amounts of money into my account and then I can take that money and then do whatever I want. So it’s just straight passive income and that is what’s really cool about this.

And they don’t always continue at such a great rate. The ETH/USDT one was actually over 10% for a while and now it’s down to 8.5%. So they’re not necessarily always staying at the same rate of return because it’s based off of how volatile that coin is and how many trades you’re doing.

Then you can see our total bot profit of $469, our total average return since we’ve done this and then the sum total (P&L) is only $48. And the reason for this is because two of these coins have actually gone down in value. The coins can go up or down in value themselves, which will either amplify or decrease what’s going on with your total earnings. So even though the bots have earned me $469, my total, if I were to close everything out right now, would only be a $48 gain because the coins have gone down in value. Now, if the coins are going up in value, then it kind of amplifies it.

So I might have had $469 in bot profit, but I might have $700 of total profit because the coins went up. So what’s cool about this it reduces your losses – I saw this firsthand in November and December when the market was just kind of tanking. If you’re going to be holding cryptocurrency anyway, if you’re holding Bitcoin, Ethereum, or really any other altcoins that you’re excited about holding for the long term, what’s great is that when those coins go down, you’re still making money. So it reduces your loss. And that’s what I meant at the beginning where I said this might be the least risky way to invest in cryptocurrency, or it could be depending on what you’re investing in. And so I found that to be pretty cool because there were certain coins I was invested in that dropped 50% in value, but I only actually lost about 20% because of this, because it was earning me money all the way down.

Are crypto trading bots worth it?

Ultimately, you will need to decide for yourself. If you have money that you can afford to lose (because crypto is really volatile) and want a good chance at beating traditional stock market returns, then this might be something to consider.

So how did I learn about this?

Back in October, I had a friend who was recommending a program that he went through from this guy named Dan who was teaching his exact strategy of how he did this. And this guy actually spent millions of dollars kind of going through, trying to figure out the perfect settings and the perfect way to do this, to minimize risk and maximize gains.

So I ended up going through his program and that’s how I learned this whole thing. And I would love to share all the details with you, the exact details, but I can’t. Part of being a part of that program is that you have to sign an NDA non-disclosure agreement basically saying that you will not share the secret sauce with anyone else.

Like I said, Dan spent millions of dollars figuring this out so I can appreciate that he doesn’t want it to get out too far and wide. So you have to go through his course in order to learn the actual method and I can speak to it being a good course since I went through it.

So who is Dan Hollings?

He’s a former teacher so he’s really good at explaining things. And I’ve been in a lot of different online courses and there’s a lot of people with online courses who are not good teachers and he’s actually a really good teacher. I found it to be very, very helpful and I honestly think even if you don’t know anything about crypto, he can take you from those beginning stages to kind of help you navigate through this because, to be honest, it’s really pretty easy. You need to go through the training, it’ll take some time to learn everything but then once you have everything setup, it’s super passive and it’s very set it and forget it.

Some of my experience

Since I’ve began, I’ve changed my bots maybe three or four times. And you can just leave a bot run for sometimes months at a time without making any changes. And as Dan says in the class, a lot of times the best ones are the ones who just don’t do anything, just leave it alone and just let it run and run its course and just let it keep making you money passively throughout.

So like I said, I started doing this about five months ago and I feel like I’ve learned a lot in this process and I’ll just share a few of the highlights of things, some pros and cons.

Pros

1. I definitely think it’s legit

When I first saw this, there was a part of me that thought “no way, this is too good to be true.” But I don’t think this is a scam in any way. I’ve had my own money invested in this for over five months now, Dan seems completely legit, they have over 10,000 students at this point and he just does a lot of things really, really well.

2. You’ll have some hand-holding if you need it

The training is very thorough and very comprehensive. I went through at 2x speed because I’ve already been invested in some crypto and I feel like I knew the space a little bit, but for someone who hasn’t invested in any crypto at all, he definitely holds your hand and guides you through the whole process really well.

3. Fantastic customer support

They are very responsive and just very, very helpful. There were a lot of questions that I asked, maybe even to an annoying point, and they answered them all and there were even a handful where Dan himself came back and answered for me if someone else couldn’t find the answer.

And let me just make this clear – I consider this an experiment for myself and I’m okay losing my own money but before I ever talk about it with you, I want to feel confident that this isn’t a scam. Which I do feel confident of now! But I can’t guarantee that anyone is going to make or lose money with this. Which leads me to my next point – I want to show you how I did actually lose some money on a bot.

Like I was saying, when the coin value goes down – the GMT coin, let’s say this drops by 50% – if that’s the case, the value of this is going to go down. So unless I’ve earned enough to offset that with bot profit, if I were to sell it at this point, I would lose money in total on this bot. But that’s the thing, you don’t actually lose money until you sell. A big part of this whole thing is figuring out which coin pairs to pick and that is part of what Dan and his whole training was helpful in figuring out. So if I’m I’m confident in the coin pair I have, I can just hold onto it because it’s still making me money in the process. As long as it doesn’t go out of the grid range. And even if it does, I can still expand to that grid range. So even if it drops all the way down out of the grid range and it’s not making me money, I can extend the grid down and have it be making me money again.

All that to say, I had a couple coins that dropped in value but because I was using these bots on a lot of the coins I was holding, I didn’t lose nearly as much because it was making me money in the process.

“Cons”

1. Training takes some time

I probably spent a few hours going through the training so to some that might be a con. I already owned some Bitcoin, Ethereum, I had exchanges setup, I had a headstart. Someone brand new to crypto is going to have to open those accounts and some of those accounts take a day or two to open so it’s going to take a little time transferring money, etc. But once that’s done, like I said above, you’re literally just doing what he says to do and it’s pretty simple.

2. The course is expensive

Like I said above, Dan spent a lot of money trying to figure out the secret sauce so I understand why he wants to protect it so it’s an expensive thing to get into. But, if you look at the returns that you’re getting on even just a single bot, you can see how you’re earning your money back. Even if I continue to get 8% for the rest of the year, that’s close to a 50% return from this one coin pair. And that example is Ethereum which is proably one of the least volatile coins. So if I were investing in any other coins, even a little bit more volatile than this, the returns get a lot better.

To continue this example, in those transactions, it shows in just 4 days, it has done 636 transactions. Meanwhile, the far less volatile one has done 74 transactions in 2 months. More volatile = more transactions = more opportunity for earnings.

Dan said in the program that the average student is earning about 70% per year, which, again coming from the financial world is insane.

The caveat here, again, is that this is risky. It’s crypto, it’s a new world and a new industry. Just like when the internet started, there were so many people who made a lot of money because they were at the beginning of something really big. We’re still relatively at the beginning of mass adoption with crypto, and it’s becoming more and more widely used and adopted, but there’s still a lot of opportunity.

3. Sales team is a little pushy IMO

Like I said earlier, Dan is a former teacher, very gentle and does a great job explaining all this stuff. But the sales team he hired is a little bit salesy for my taste. And I might be sensitive to this but it’s just a bit more salesy than I’d like.

So what I did and what I would recommend you do is just look past that and look at the actual product itself and decide for yourself if this is something that you want to do.

4. It’s risky

I know I’ve said this a million times already but I want to make sure this isn’t lost on anyone. Risky means that there’s a big upside but there’s also a big downside. And you just have to know that going into it. I would never invest money that I was not comfortable losing in this. So don’t invest your grocery money, your retirement savings or your kids college funds in this.

We talk about the more stable, slower approach to investing in our 10x Investing Course and that is where I feel very confident in over the longterm. There will still be ups and downs but with crypto, it’s just a bigger roller coaster of ups and downs.

UPDATE 10/07/22

Since I wrote this in May, the market has been mostly down but the bots have been continuing to passively kick out profit each day.

My current returns are a little lower than they were in May, but for the last 3.5 months they have generated a 13.98% return of $558 of which I am thrilled.

The Plan bots earnings from the last 3 months
My current bots and their returns

And as to the passive nature of it, I changed a couple bots and added a couple new ones with profits and have probably spent less than 1 hour over the last 5 months working on it.

So all in all, I am happy with how they have been working. I would never want something like this to be my ONLY investment as it is too risky, but I personally allocate about 10% of my investments to riskier ones like this.

Interested in learning more about “the Plan”?

They only open enrollment 2-3 times a year and are currently closed. If you drop your email down below I can send you an email when they open up again.

Want to just try to this whole thing out without the training I took?

I am deeply grateful for “The Plan” and what I learned in it, but it is only open for enrollment a few times a year and I know some of you are adventurous explorers and like to just dive in. If that is you, you can learn more about the actual bot software that I use called Bitsgap here for as little as $29/month.

The training provides a ton of valuable info as well as Dan’s “secret sauce” settings to use at Bitsgap to get the best returns. But again if you want to explore Bitsgap on your own go for it!

If you join, let me know!

And if you have are part of the program, send me an email and let me know because I created a private group where we are all sharing ideas and what is working best with each other. Really I have just found it to be helpful to have others to chat with about the whole thing.

Have questions or comments? Leave them below and I’ll do my best to get back to you. I’m happy to be at the point with this that I feel comfortable sharing my opinion on this and helping you make the right decision for yourself, whatever that is!

Yieldnodes Review (my honest thoughts and results 8 months later)

October 15, 2022 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

IMPORTANT UPDATE: 10/15/22

As of 10/13/22 you can no longer enroll in Yieldnodes. They are going through some restructuring with their assets and currently are not allowing new deposits or withdrawals. Personally I am not excited about this and a bit concerned about the money I invested. But, like I always say, in the world of Crypto, EVERYTHING is risky and we should never invest anything we can’t afford to lose.  My hope is that their restructuring works and they successfully pull through this intense crypto bear market right now.  I’ll continue to provide updates every couple months and we shall see how this plays out.  

ORIGINAL ARTICLE:

When I started with Yieldnodes 8 months ago, I was VERY skeptical.

It just seemed too good to be true. I have worked in the financial industry for pretty much all of my career and I know what to expect with a good investment and am very skeptical of anything that promises really great returns.

But as I did my due diligence with them I discovered that they had a ton of great reviews on TrustPilot, they had all kinds of audits done on their company, and they had been around since 2019 (which is like an eternity in the Crypto space).

So I decided to throw some money in to see what would happen.

And to date, I am glad that I did.

While I consider this to be on the riskier side of crypto, performance wise it’s actually probably the best performing thing that I’ve invested in this past year in crypto (as of Aug 8th, 2022).

My yield nodes performance after 6 months

Truth be told, YieldNodes has done nothing but earn me money consistently each month since I started investing in it.

Whereas every other coin I’ve invested in has gone down and many of them by 70-80% in the last 6 months. And so I’m very excited about this.

That’s why I wanted to share it because although it is on the riskier side, at the same time I feel like it’s just done really well for me.

Watch my yieldnodes review video for full details:

This video will take you through the details of my last month’s earnings as well as step-by-step instructions if you decide to join Yieldnodes.

So what is Yieldnodes?

Yieldnodes program details

When you joinYieldNodes, and invest money with YieldNodes, you are participating in Masternoding.

I’m not going to get super technical on how cryptocurrencies and how blockchain works, because I’m not super strong on the technical side. And I don’t really understand it well enough to give you a perfect answer.

The two different types of validation

But what I will say is you have two different types of validation that happens. And so you have Bitcoin, which is a proof of work thing and it is a very time intensive thing. And these big calculations that are being done and all this stuff.

Proof of stake on the other hand are a whole bunch of other coins. And I would say, I think the vast majority of them uses the proof of stake model where you have computers that are now validating those transactions.

Blockchain

investing with YieldNodes

This is how the blockchain works. A transaction is made and it goes out to a whole bunch of different computers that have to validate it. This is my basic understanding of blockchain. And that’s probably not a hundred percent technically correct. But, that’s my basic understanding of how it all works.

So Masternoding is when you are basically providing computing power and storage space by using special software and whatever really powerful computers and stuff like that to kind of help validate transactions on the blockchain. It’s not something that’s super easy or cheap to get into. In which is why when you scale this up, it’s a little bit easier.

The advantage of using YieldNodes

You and I can both do this. And we don’t have to use YieldNodes to invest in crypto. We could go do this on our own, but because they’re pulling a whole bunch of money together they can invest and they can do it at a higher level.

At more scale and get a lot of these benefits and rewards because when you are doing this, when you’re providing this computing power and the storage space and these things there are rewards for doing so. That is how we earn money. So it’s kind of like a service that’s being provided and we are earning from helping with that service.

Masternoding in detail

I want to share with you a better, more technical, explanation of Masternoding:

Masternoding is an alternate way to earn revenue by providing technology or a Masternode that relies on proof of stake approach, a Masternode like any other full node is a node server within a network and full nodes are important because they process transactions and store them in the blockchain.

However, a Masternode operator has rights beyond those of a normal. Full node operator and is required to manage more critical tasks, bringing the operator higher rewards in order to obtain the status of a Masternode operator must deposit a specified number of the relevant coin for the staking, along with the performance of the required task and the provision of computing power plus storage space.

The operator receives rewards based on the corresponding coin proof of stake by operating appropriate Masternodes diligently while constantly monitoring, optimizing with clever strategies, extraordinary profits can be realized.”

And so this is what we’re participating in. Below, these are all the different coins that they’re actually Masternoding for:

Crypto companies that partner with YieldNodes

Why it’s best not to do this on our own

So in theory, you and I could go do this with each one of these… if we had enough resources, money, to do that for each one of them. But again, because we’re all pulling our money together, YieldNodes can facilitate all of this and go do Masternoding for each of these coins. And then they split the rewards with all of us who are part of this. So that’s the long of what’s actually happening.

YieldNodes performance

But coming to performance, this is what has been mindblowing to me.

They’ve been operating since 2019, which is a long, long time in the crypto world. And these are their average MONTHLY (not yearly) returns:

YieldNodes past performance chart

So you can look at this and you can see the average is somewhere from, 9-10% per month, not per year.

How much can you make with Yieldnodes?

The average monthly yield for the last 33 months has been 10%, which is just bonkers to me.

33 month statistics for Yieldnodes
Chart of yield nodes performance

My Yieldnodes review (my experience)

And so I have been with them since January of 2021. I had only made half a percent because I got in late.

But if I would’ve been in for the whole month of January, I would’ve had a much better return. February’s yield was 8.3%. March, was 7.4%. In April was 8.3%. And in May I added more money. So I only got like half of it, I think it would’ve had a higher return in May. In June it was 6.1.%. July was a fantastic 9.03% and then 6.1% in August.

My total return in 8 months = 51.9%

My actual yieldnodes returns for the last 8 months: 51.9%

And so I haven’t gotten an average of 10%. But the market has been just atrocious.

And I mean, I’m tickled pink to be getting returns like this.

The Yieldnodes risks

So in terms of the actual risks with Yieldnodes, I think the biggest risk is that it just stops working.

And they’re very transparent, which is another thing that I really like about them. They have said that they don’t expect returns to be this good forever.

And they also say all over their website that this is a risky investment. So, I am not investing ANY money that I would not be okay if I lost.

Learn more about investing wisely in our 10X Investing Course

But, at the same time, they have said that the loss of capital is highly unlikely because it’s not trading. So they’re mentioning fluctuation and then coin price. That’s probably the biggest risk. If one particular coin was to lose like 90% of its value, I think that should affect our account and affect our earnings.

The art of losing money

I’m not excited to lose money by any means. But with losing, I’m weighing the risks and the rewards. And especially in my experience, because I’ve had the last five months to evaluate, I’ve seen what’s happened.

And based on my experience so far with Yieldnodes, I’m gonna be adding more money to it.

Is Yieldnodes a scam?

Is Yieldnodes legit? Is Yieldnodes safe? Like I said at the beginning, I was really skeptical. And you and I should be… with every investment, including Yieldnodes.

Obviously, I can’t know for 100% certain whether or not it is a scam, but the fact that they have been around since 2019, and that there are many hundreds of positive Yieldnodes reviews on Trustpilot, and the fact that they randomly select members to come audit their books, makes me feel pretty good about them.

Scammers typically don’t do/have any of that stuff.

So, you need to invest according to your risk tolerance, but like I said, I feel pretty solid that it isn’t some big scam, so I am not only going to keep my money in with them, but will also be adding more as well.

What are the fees Yieldnodes charges?

Another thing I was wondering when I started investing with YieldNodes was, what do the fees look like with something like this?

And they say a maximum of 15% of whatever they earn (and that comes out before the profits hit your account). And so as long as I’m continuing to get returns, I’m happy to pay the 15% fee. I don’t really care about the fee at thins point, because I’m getting fantastic returns so far.

Yieldnodes minimum deposit

At the time of this writing the minimum deposit to start with Yield nodes is £500 (or about $600 US).

How to get started with YieldNodes

So if you’re interested in getting started with YieldNodes, I’m gonna walk you through exactly how to deposit and get everything set up with that.

I have it laid out with text and some screenshots below, but honestly I think watching the 2nd half of the video up above will be a lot more helpful for you.

Step one

The first thing you do when you actually sign up for a YieldNodes account is to deposit money. And so there’s a couple different ways we can do this. They have some ways to just exchange dollars in. But since this is a European company, I found that none of them worked for me.

And so the easiest way to add money is actually to just deposit Bitcoin. And I do so with Coinbase. The process of how to actually do this with any exchange where you can buy Bitcoin, or you can do this with Binance or really any other exchange.

Step two

Now we’re gonna trade. And so if you have nothing in your Coinbase account, you’ll want to actually buy some. And so over on the buy side, enter in the amount you’re going to buy. I have multiple banks connected to my account. But, you’ll need to connect a payment method or bank. I like to use PayPal for this.

But the point is, you’re just gonna buy Bitcoin at the exchange and you’re gonna transfer it over to YieldNodes. And then they’re going to deposit it, we’ll get into these details in a bit.

If you haven’t connected a bank yet this might take a little more time when you make this first purchase before it’s available for you to use.

Step three

Submit your order to add funds. Once you have the funds, you’ll want to click over to assets. When you refresh the screen, you can see the Bitcoin funds in your assets. Remember, it will not only show the funds you’ve added but it will also reflect the fees that have been taken out.

adding bitcoin to your coinbase assets

Step four (how to deposit funds into Yieldnodes)

Now click on your Bitcoin and send this over to YieldNodes.

When paying with Bitcoin, you’ll need the address to send it to. Once you have the address to send it to, make sure send is selected, click it and then send the amount over. And when you send it over to YieldNodes, make sure you’re selecting deposit. They’ll give you unique address to deposit your Bitcoin to.

how to deposit funds on yieldnodes

This address is the equivalent to you writing a physical address on an envelope, putting a hundred dollars in it and mailing it. If you write the wrong address on that, it very well could go to the wrong house and the likelihood of them sending it back is pretty low.

So, you want to make sure you have the correct address. Double check it. After double checking, copy and paste in that address. And I like to double check it again at this point. I’ll read probably the first three letters and the last three letters, just to confirm that I’m looking at the right thing. And then you’re going to send now. You’ll be asked for your code to confirm this transaction. And now the transaction is done.

how to deposit funds to yieldnodes

Step five

Go back over to YieldNodes.

Now you’re not going to see the funds right away. It might be a couple of days before you see anything show up in your YieldNodes account. And when you do, you’ll see your deposit pending. It takes them about seven days to actually take your money and to put it to use and actually get it Masternoding. Once those seven days are up, you’ll probably see that money in the Masternoded balance because now it’s actively earning new money.

YieldNodes pending status

How to withdraw funds from Yieldnodes

When you deposit your money, it’s locked up for six months. Now they do have an emergency withdraw option, but know that this incurs a 25% fee. But know that you can withdraw your funds within that six month window in an emergency. So if you have something come up where you absolutely need to do that, then you can do that. But ideally you’re waiting that six months so that you don’t have to pay that hefty fee.

Once you reach six months, you’re withdrawable amount will show. With each month as your Masternoded amount earns money, it will show up in this withdrawable area and you’ll be able to pull those funds out.

how to withdraw funds from YieldNodes

Automatically recompound your earnings

Now I don’t withdraw all of my earnings each month. I take advantage of automatically recompound the earnings back into my Masternoded balance. Because I don’t think I have to explain the power of compound interest to you, but that’s how you really see the big earnings is by compounding, Continuing to pour everything back in… that’s where things really, really start to grow. And so that’s what I’m choosing to do.

If you go to the withdraw section, you can set automatic recompounding for yourself too (it’s all the way at the bottom). You can use the slider provided to determine how much of your profits you want to automatically recompound. And if you don’t want to recompound, if you want to take the earnings each month out, you can do that. Just leave the slider set at zero and then you’ll have this withdraw amount and you can withdraw it.

Or if you do want to compound half of it, or even all of it, you can do that as well. And yes, this is where this emergency withdraw can be found too. If you run into a situation that you need to do that for some reason,

When you’re on the deposit page, if you scroll down, you’ll be able to see your deposits as well as your compound earnings. And you’ll also be able to see what YieldNodes have added back to recompound. So if you ever want to find out those figures you can see that there as well.

recompounding earnings with YieldNodes

UPDATE: Sept 2022

So, I just got an email from Yield nodes that is kind of blowing my mind. They sent an email saying that they are going to REDUCE their fee from 15% of profits to 12.5%.

Which means that users like myself will now be getting 87.5% instead of 85%.

Yieldnodes reducing their fee!

This is not only a nice gesture, but for me it gives me even more confidence in the Yield Nodes team. They have consistently done things to prove that they are a legitimate operation and the furthest thing from a scam.

I will keep updating this post every couple months on my actual results, so stay tuned.

In closing

So that is a brief overview of YieldNodes.

If you found this helpful and do end up signing up I appreciate you using our referral link right here.

It doesn’t cost you anything, but it helps us pay some of the expenses of creating content like this for you. And while I know there are plenty of people on the internet who will say anything for a quick buck, that isn’t me. I have been doing this for over 15 years and all our community knows that I only recommend products that I personally use and would recommend to my mom and sister.

The point is, I value my reputation and your trust far more than a few bucks. Trust takes a long time to earn in this era where almost everyone is blowing smoke and I hope to earn yours.

With that in mind I just write about what I use and love, and if it has a referral program then i’ll use the link rather than leaving money on the table.

Additionally, if you use our referral links, those funds help fund the monthly giveaways that we do for our community. So ultimately we both win. I get to give more away via giveaways (my top goal) and you get to win more by using our links.

I like this plan and I hope you do too.

And if you have any questions about Yieldnodes, just reach out. I am happy to chat and I’ll share my experience, anything I’ve learned or whatever thing I may have bumped into with the whole process.

All right. Hopefully you found this helpful!

How to make your kid a millionaire [by employing them in your business]

August 12, 2022 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

(The following is an abbreviated transcription from a video Linda and I recorded. Please excuse any typos or errors.)

What would you say if I told you that you could set your kid up for millionaire status? You can. Especially if you own your own business.

In this article you will see how you can take your kid, get them to work in your business, and help them become a millionaire by age 60. All without them even knowing about it.

We also will go over Linda’s eye twitch, why you might not want to save it all up for a huge inheritance, and the most important things we should be leaving our kids with. All very interesting topics!

Now before we get into all the details and give you a strategy for employing your kids in your business, I recorded our discussion that you can listen to on our Podcast below. But, if you would rather read the full transcription, you can do so here in this article!

How to make your kid a millionaire

Bob: We posted something on Instagram (actually a repost from the account “worthlifebalance”) and a lot of people were asking about it. So I wanted to share that. Basically, it’s about how to make your kid a millionaire. Even if they’re not going to do anything. You can kind of force millionaire-ness on them. We’re going to talk a little bit about how to do this. And it’s actually really simple. 

11 year old Ava

I’ll just read this to you. It states: “Ava is 11 years old when her mom learns that she can hire Ava in her business. Then, deduct her salary as a business expense. Ava does office work and social media marketing and earns $7,500 for that year. Ava’s mom then invest 75% of that $7,500 into a Roth IRA earning 8% annually. And then she stops when Ava turns 18. Without investing another penny, when Ava turned 60, she will have $1.2 million.”

Linda: Wow. 

Bob: And I shared something about this not too long ago. But I want to talk to a little bit more about this because people kept on asking questions. Like, “oooh, how do you do this? What, what, wha, wha…Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me! Is this legal? “

Linda: Yeah. Somebody asked, “how do we do this legally?”

8 year old Alden (our son)

Bob: So we’ve begun doing this with our eight year old. But giving you the high level of what this actually looks like. So your child can work in your business. And then you can pay them out of the business. And that’s beautiful. It’s really, really nice.

The catch here, where I’ve seen some people take this to a little bit of a shady level. And maybe go a little bit too far with it. And possibly getting themselves in a gray area is when you have a three-year-old that you were paying a hundred dollars an hour to do something in your office. Like pick up trash, or whatever.

Linda: Well, I was thinking more child labor laws, too. 

Bob: Yeah, I how much of an issue that is. But in terms of this, the IRS says it has to be a reasonable salary that you were paying your child. So you need to think like, what would you pay someone to pick up trash in your office? 

Linda: Right. 

Bob: And that is a salary.

Learning a skill while earning

Linda: So we gave Alden the job of being our cameraman. 

Bob: Yeah. So Alden actually was… 

Linda: This is our oldest son, he’s 8. 

Bob: He was manning the B cam on one of the videos that we shot, actually our book trailer. And I’m going to start having them do this more often. But I figured that’s something he could actually do. And he actually hold that camera for us.

Linda: And it’s a skill he can learn. 

Bob: Yeah. And it’s something that I want him to grow in. It’s a skill he can learn. And so we paid him, just like we would pay a camera man to help film a video.

Linda: We paid him $10,000…

Bob: No. It definitely wasn’t that amount. It was an hourly rate, a reasonable hourly rate. I don’t want to get in trouble with the IRS. I don’t want to have those conversations.

Investing earned income

Bob: But, what’s great is that Alden now has earned income. As soon as your kid has earned income, that they earned money from a job (at a reasonable rate), they can open a Roth IRA. Which is awesome. We go more into depth, as deep as you want to go, in our 10X investing course.

Linda: Okay. I have a question. So let’s say we get Alden a Roth IRA this year. That he works enough hours to do that. If he does no work next year, can he still contribute? Do you have to keep working in order to contribute?  Or could we contribute for him? Do you know what I’m saying? Even if he’s not technically doing any work? 

Bob: I need to look into this, but I’m pretty confident that it has to be out of your earned income. 

Linda: Gotcha. 

Bob: He has to earn the money and then a percentage of that… 

Linda: So it has to be his money. 

Bob: Yes. That’s what I understand. 

Linda: We can’t just throw money in there. 

Bob: No. That’s what I understand. 

Linda: Interesting. Okay. 

We homeschool. And so this makes it something really doable for us to do with our kids, because this can be part of school for them. They can earn an income at the same time. 

Bob: Double duty.

Seedtime’s 10x Investing Course

Bob: Since we’re discussing investing, we’re actually going to be updating our 10X investing course.

We received a lot of requests for different lessons (etc.) to add to the course. And so we’ve already did a decent sized update in it, but we’re going to do a really significant update soon that we’ll probably call our 2.0 version.

The price is going to go up once we update. But if you do decide to join, you can get in right now at the current price. I’m not sure when this is going to be, but probably in the next couple of months. So anybody who buys our courses to this point, every update that we’ve ever done has always been free for anyone who’s ever bought our courses. We’ve never charged anyone for an update. And I’d love to keep it that way. And as long as we can, we’ll keep doing that.

The point is, you can get the course now for a cheaper rate. And we will be having a lot more of this content coming in. So if you’re interested get this course now before the price increases!

Calculating the numbers

Bob: In Ava’s story, she was earning 8% annually. And that’s very exciting! With what we talk about in a 10X investing course, honestly, I would expect a little bit higher return. And that might be somewhat optimistic. But generally speaking, over the last a hundred years and maybe with the stock market dipping down, it might be closer to a 9% average return for the S&P 500. But I typically see estimates of somewhere from 9-10% on that. And that makes a big difference over this amount of time. 

Linda: Right. 

Bob: I actually ran these numbers. This $1.2 million is based on Ava’s mom contributing Ava’s money for seven years, from age 11 to 18. And it was an amount of about $5,600 she was contributing for those seven years annually. And again, she never put another dime in after those seven years. At age 60, the money Ava invested will have grown to $1.2 million.

I pulled up an investment calculator and we’re going to just pretend. What happens if all these good lessons that we teach Ava, just sink in? “Hey, this is what we’re doing. We’re contributing $5,600 annually.” What if we got her to actually continue with it from age 18 until she was 60, and she just continued to contribute $5,600 a year? We teach her to invest and then she’s continued to do invest. Let’s just show what this looks like.

Okay. So her starting amount, I’m ballparking it here, let’s just say she started with $40,000 at age 18. And this would be after another 42 years of investing $5,600 a year, if she continued that.

Linda: Wow. 

Bob: So this would be better if we did…

Linda: A monthly contribution?

Bob: Yes. Very much so. 

Linda: Okay. 

Bob: Let’s just go with $5,600 and a return rate of 9.5%, because I would expect the rate to be somewhere from 9-10%. And we’ll contribute at the end of the year. Now, if we were doing this monthly it would be considerably bigger, but let’s just go with an annual contribution. When we calculate this, the investment grows to being four and a half million dollars!

Linda: And that’s not even doing anything else.

Bob: Well, that’s with a contribution of $5,600 per year. 

Linda: No, I know that. I’m saying that’s the only thing is she’s contributing to is her Roth IRA for this. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: I mean, that’s pretty great! 

Roth IRA and taxes

Bob: Yeah. And what’s great about the Roth is that a tax-free? And so all of these contributions they grow in when she pulls out this four and a half million dollars or so at age 60 she doesn’t have to pay taxes.

Linda: I am going to call my parents right now and be like, “why didn’t you do this for me?”

Bob: I don’t think that’s a good idea. 

Linda: I’d be so close. 

Bob: I don’t think that’s a good idea. Don’t do that. Just don’t do that. So, anyway investing early (and often) is pretty powerful.

Linda: It is amazing. 

Bob: Yeah. It’s a pretty cool thing that is available. 

Inheritance: a weapon or a blessing?

Linda: Do you think it is a good idea… and I don’t even know how to answer this. But my eye is twitching so bad right now. And it just stopped as soon as you looked at it. Do you see it? 

Bob: Nope. 

Linda: Really? Gosh, I can’t get him to see it. It’s so frustrating because to me it feels like I’m blinking, anyway.

I was just thinking, let’s say my parents had done this for me as a kid. It would have been better for them to have not told me about it until I was much older. 

Bob: How much older? 

Linda: Well, now it would be fine. I think we could handle it at this point in our lives. Knowing that I married you… they’re like “she married Bob, it’ll be fine.” 

Bob: So keep your kid’s investing a secret until they’re 40?

Linda: If someone doesn’t have, I don’t know….

Bob: The maturity?

Linda: The maturity, the forethought, the foresight, whatever… to save for themselves for retirement. Do you think that this is a weapon or a blessing? 

Bob: That completely depends. It depends on the kid, you know that, but… 

Linda: Well, but they won’t be a kid by the time they can receive their inheritance. They will be an adult. 

Bob: That’s true. 

Linda: But that means there’s plenty of adults winning the lottery and not able to hold on to it. You know what I mean? And I think that was my thought. 

Parenting money management

Bob: But that’s part of our job. 

Linda: Like, is this a good idea? I don’t know. 

Bob: That’s part of our jobs as parents though. 

Linda: True. 

Bob: That’s part of our job, helping our kids… 

Linda: Yeah. If we’re doing this, if we’re starting them a Roth IRA as a child. 

Bob: It’s not just about money. Like we’re teaching them how to handle and manage it. Because that’s what’s so important. Because it doesn’t matter how much we leave them, they can blow it and it can destroy their lives. But we have to teach them how to manage it and how to do manage well. 

Why you might not want to save up a huge inheritance for your kids

Bob: I was reading a book not too long ago and I don’t remember which one it was, but it was talking about this idea of arguing for giving money to your kids earlier. Rather than waiting till you die and then passing on a significant inheritance. 

Linda: Was it the halftime book?

Bob: No it wasn’t that one. I’m not sure which one. But anyway. And so his argument was for a lot who ended up dying in their eighties, you likely have a kid in their sixties or at least their late fifties. When you leave them money, at that point, they probably don’t need it. Or probably not nearly as much as they might have 20 or 30 years earlier when they were in their twenties or thirties. 

Linda: Yeah.

Bob: Because that’s the season where you’re trying to buy a house. Trying to raise kids, that are really expensive I might add. Your own salary probably hasn’t reached its peak yet. You’re probably not at the peak of your career. And so he made a good point. 

Generational wealth

Linda: It’s something that makes sense, too. If we’re building generational wealth to give to your grandkids. You know what I mean? Divide it up so that your grandkids can have money towards their starter home or whatever. To give them some good footing to step on. Especially now with student loans, being just astronomical it’s hard to be in a good financial position if you’ve gone to school. Unless you’re a lawyer or a doctor or something, making a really good salary right off the bat.

But yeah, if you’re 50 and your 20 year old kid is like, “can I have some money to, to buy a house?” It almost makes more sense for the grandparents to pass that money down to their grandkids a little bit more. Because by the time you pass money on to your kids, they may not need it.

Like your dad in particular. We’re always asking him “what do you want for Father’s Day? What do you want for Christmas?” You know? And he’s like, I have everything I want. I don’t need anything. You don’t need to buy me anything. And of course we want to bless him, but he’s not at a point where he’s like, “oh man, I just really need …,” you know? 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: And he also views money completely differently. 

Bob: Yeah. He’s in a different season of life. Money is viewed differently. Necessities are different. All of those things. 

Linda: Yeah. Whereas when you’re just starting out in your twenties and thirties, you need to furnish your entire house. But then also you got kids coming and it’s just expensive. 

The most important things we should be leaving our kids with

Bob: Back to your original question of, “can inheritance be a weapon?” And I think absolutely it can. Again, I think that leads to the more important point. The lessons that we teach our kids about managing money. How to do it and how to do it with the right heart. Understanding that money is a tool and it’s not a goal. Like all of these different things.

I think that is far more valuable than the 1.2 million or $4.4 million that we can help our kids accumulate, you know? Because at the end of the day, like that’s what I want for our kids. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: If we’re going to help them grow their investments and do something like this, I want them to be not running out and thinking, “all right, how many Lambos can I buy? How many yachts can I buy?”

I want them to be Kingdom minded with it.

Yes, I want them to obviously be able to take care of their own needs. But I want them to be thinking like, “how can I impact the Kingdom with this?”

Linda: Yep. 

Bob: “What can we do with this? This tool that we’re entrusted with?” You know? I want them to have a stewardship mindset. So yeah, so I think wrapping all this up, I think that’s the real value here. 

Inheriting when you are over 60

Bob: If you’re in your mid sixties and you have kids in their thirties, it’s something to consider. Like not just saving it all up until you die, you may want to bless your children sooner at a time when they may need that money even more.

Linda: Yeah. Especially you’re in this position of having four and a half million dollars.

Bob: Yeah. If you’re just accumulating this massive nest egg, just because you want to dump it on your kids when you die, you might not die for awhile. You might get to your nineties and then you’re passing your money along to your 60 or 70 year old kids. 

Linda: Yeah and they just don’t need it as much. 

Bob: And what are they going to do with the money at that point? You know? So it’s almost… I don’t know. 

Linda: Live it up! That’s what they do.

Bob: And they’re seventy years old. 

Linda: They may think “I only got a few years left.” Live it up!

Bob: Yeah.

Linda: I’m going to get my Lamborghini now. 

Bob: So funny. 

Linda: Wouldn’t that be awesome? 

Bob: Would it? 

Linda: I don’t know. Just seeing 70 and 80 year old people driving around… 

Bob: In Lambos? 

Linda: …in their Lamborghinis that were their inheritance money for their parents. 

Bob: That’s a pretty funny thought.

Linda: I do think that’s funny. 

Bob: Anyway, so that is all we have for you today. Hope you have a great one.

Linda: Lots of food for thought here. 

Bob: Lots of food for thought. A

Advice wanted for Linda’s eye twitching

Bob: And if you figure out Linda’s eye twitching issue… 

Linda: Please. 

Bob: …send us a message. 

Linda: I’ll do anything. 

Bob: And if you haven’t yet… 

Linda: Except diet and exercise, I’m just kidding. 

Bob: That’s not true. Anyway. If you haven’t yet, come say hi to us on Instagram. We’re @seedtime. Just say hi. Send us a note, we’d love to connect with you. You’re awesome. Take care. Have a great one. 

Linda: Have a great day.

Jordan Grumet: A hospice doctor’s advice on spending, saving, and living life to the full

August 12, 2022 By Bob Lotich, CEPF®

(The following is an abbreviated transcription from a video Linda and I recorded with Jordan Grumet. Please excuse any typos or errors.)

Jordan Grumet (our new Jewish friend) is an MD (hospice doctor), host of the award-winning podcast Earn and Invest and an author.

His new book is called Taking Stock: A Hospice Doctor’s Advice on Financial Independence, Building Wealth, and Living a Regret-Free Life.

We are diving in to some of his unconventional financial advice and how we can use it to make the most of our lives… we’re talking advice on spending, saving, and living life to the full!

Now before we get into the details of the book, I recorded our discussion that you can listen to on our Podcast. But, if you would rather read the full transcription, you can do so here in this article!

Introducing Dr. Jordan Grumet

Bob: Hey everybody. We are excited today. Linda are both here. And we’re interviewing Jordan Grumet. He’s a doctor, he’s a host of an award-winning podcast called Earn & Invest, which is a great one to check out. He’s also an author of a new book called Taking Stock. This book is really cool, there’s a lot of great things in it. And, and I love his perspective and his angle on a lot of things.

So I’m really excited to dive in and just ask a lot of questions. Anyway, So Jordan, thank you for taking a few minutes of your time and chatting with us today, brother. 

Jordan: Thank you for having me. I’m so excited for this conversation. 

Bob: Great! 

Linda: Us too. 

Bob: All right. Well, I wanna start just with your story. You’re a doctor and you’ve turned into a financial guru of some sort. It’s just interesting, because you don’t hear that every day. So, how did that happen? How’d you get into this? What’s your story?

Jordan’s story

Jordan: So when I was seven years old, my father who was a doctor also died suddenly of a brain aneurysm, like, 

Bob: Oh wow.

Linda: Oh my. 

Jordan: He had a headache one day and he was gone.

Linda: Ohh. 

Jordan: And, I wanted to be just like him, right? I’m seven years old. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: Every little boy idolized is their father. Right. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: And so that became my identity and I studied really, really hard. I went to as good of a college as I could go to. Ended up going to medical school in residency. I was living my best life, so to speak.

But as I continued to practice medicine, I found myself getting burned out. Like there’s a lot more paperwork, a lot more administration often that dream of rushing in the room and saving patients was just that a dream. And it was a lot harder and there’s a lot of shades of gray and a lot of sadness.

They had their own businesses, they side hustled. They did these great things. They owned real estate. 

And so, as I got to my thirties and early forties, after doing this for 10, 15 years, I started looking for a way out, I was getting burned out and I started looking at my finances. I was really, really lucky because I was born to parents who modeled great financial behavior. My mom, my stepdad had saved lots of money.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: I had all these great financial teachings. I actually did most of the right things. I just had no idea what I was doing. I was just doing what they were doing. 

Linda: Mm. 

Clueless about finances

Jordan: After bumping my head against the wall, trying to figure out if I could retire or not. And everyone told me I couldn’t… because you didn’t have nearly enough money. A guy named Jim Dahle, The White Coat Investor, he sent me his book because I was writing a medical blog at the time. And he is like, I just came out with this book, take a read, please write a review on it. I read his book and it changed my life. It gave me like the vocabulary to understand my finances. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: And I knew I could leave medicine right away. Which was exciting for about a moment. And then I fell into a deep depression because I had identified as a doctor for so long. It was the thing that connected me to my father. And I, all of a sudden was talking about stepping away. So the next few years I spent time writing about actually personal finance, trying to figure out who I am, what has meaning for me, and that led to a blog and a podcast.

And if that wasn’t enough, when I got rid of everything in medicine, I didn’t like what was left… hospice or taking care of the dying. And, the funny thing was in taking care of the dying, as I did it more and more I started finding answers to questions about money in life. Things that I was talking about on my podcast already. I wasn’t talking about how you fund a 401k. I wasn’t talking about what’s a Roth IRA.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: Now, when your finances are starting to be set… what does all this mean? And what does life look like after that? And I was finding my answers from the dying and that’s kind of how I ended up here today. 

Linda: Wow. 

Career burn out

Bob: Alright. Okay. I’m just gonna pinball around a little bit, cuz I, I just have couple questions. So do you find, or is it your experience in medical world that your experience, the burnout, the it not being fully what you expected is that common? 

Jordan: Yes. It’s incredibly common. Part of the issue is, and it’s almost like every major profession, right? You don’t really know what being an accountant is like until you’re an accountant. You don’t know what being a lawyer is like until your lawyer. You might watch all those great TV shows.

Bob: Yeah.

Jordan: Same with being a doctor. There’s this glorious part about being a doctor, which is about one to 2% of the time where you are, they are in the trenches, helping people. Being there for families making the life saving diagnosis. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: And that’s great, but it’s really the one to 2%. The problem is the other 98% can be a lot of drudgery. And especially over the last few decades with the advent of computerized medical systems and paperwork, we just spend a lot more time in front of papers or computers and a lot less time with patients. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: And so the field has changed. Plus, you really never know what something is till you get into it. So a lot of doctors are feeling very burned out right now. The problem is you come outta medical school with $500,000 of debt. It’s pretty hard to say, oh, I’m not gonna do this job that pays me six figures anymore. I’m gonna go do something else, which I’m not trained to do. It’s really hard to walk away.

Making good money but being lost when it comes to finances

Bob: Yeah. A good number of medical professionals that I’ve talked to are obviously so good at their craft. They’re so knowledgeable in what they learn about. But I’ve found a good number of them just don’t know much about money (take this quiz to see how good you are with money), even though they oftentimes have really good salaries. Again, is that common? 

Jordan: Well, you know, we grow up with this idea that being a good doctor is really front and center of our life. And really we shouldn’t waste our time thinking about all those other things. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: So a lot of us figure we’ll either hire someone else to do it, or we’ll do it on the side when we have time. But most of our real passion is being good at medicine and we almost really push everything else away.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: Because it would reflect on the fact that maybe we aren’t being as good of a doctor if we’re spending time thinking about things like money. So I think a lot of us are not good at it for just that reason.

Bob: Yeah.

Linda: I’m curious how you feel about that, now being on the other side of it. Because I hear what you’re saying and I think there’s a validity to that. Of, I want to throw everything I have into helping people. But now that you’re on the other side of that and really passionate about personal finance, like how do you…

Bob: Yeah. How do you reconcile that?

Linda: Yeah. 

The power in knowing and understanding our finances

Jordan: So here’s the problem. I think when we don’t have control or at least knowledge about this one major part of our life, which is our finances. And the way that our finances can be great tools and fuel to do those things that are important to us. When we don’t feel like we have a good control of that, it really affects the way we do everything else.

For instance, when I was coming out of residency, I could have gone into hospice right away. There were a lot of reasons I didn’t, but one of the reasons is because it didn’t pay well. And so at that time I thought, okay, I can be a general internal medicine doctor. I can make a lot more. What I didn’t realize is that I’d burn out a lot faster. Maybe I would’ve been better off being a hospice doctor.

Understanding my finances, understanding financial independence and starting a good plan from day one. I could have gone and done something that was probably more a part of my purpose and identity. And I probably wouldn’t have burned out so fast. 

Linda: Interesting. 

Jordan: If I had done that, I might still be a full-time hospice doctor today, which is neither here nor there. I’m glad that I took this path and I taught me a whole new set of skills.  But, maybe I wouldn’t have burned out if I had been more thoughtful and understood my finances more so that I could make choices.

I could work a little bit less when I was getting stressed out and know that I’d be financially okay. So that just gives us power. Like knowing and understanding our finances and power in the end to really do good. Because then it’s one less thing we have to worry about and we can use that fuel to be more meaningful and purposeful.

Money is a tool, never the goal

Bob: Well, yeah. And one of the things we’re always talking to our community about is this idea that money is a tool and it’s never the goal. You know, so much of the world wants to make it a goal. And I think that’s fundamentally where you have a problem.

I recall you saying something similar in some of your writing. And it’s just so easy to lose sight of that when we’re in a world that obsesses with making it the goal. And it’s the end all and be all, until you start getting there. And you’re like, wait a minute, this… this is it?

Linda: Yeah. 

Bob: This is good as it gets? 

Linda: Well, and I think it’s easy too, to do that when you are like, well, I just spent all this money and now I’m in all this debt. It really is like the cycle. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: Yeah. And, but the problem is that money solves money problems. 

Bob: Yeah. 

The need for a greater sense of purpose

Jordan: But it doesn’t really give you a greater sense of meaning and purpose.

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Jordan: I think we’ll probably all agree that in the end, what builds a full and fruitful life for you is finding what that meaning and purpose are and pursuing it.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: And not that kind of simple, low hanging fruit that money is. I think it’s really easy to concentrate on money because it’s a lot more difficult to sit there and say, what’s really purposeful in my life. How am I gonna achieve it? 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

It’s easier to just keep making money

Jordan: Am I going to forego extra money so that I can do this meaningful thing. And those type of conversations are really tough, it’s a lot easier to just keep making money. 

Bob: Well yeah. And I think it’s probably one of the easiest things to measure and to quantify. And so it’s some way of keeping score and feeling like, 

Linda: Right. 

Bob: …checking something off a box, like having a to-do list. It feels good checking boxes. But at the end of the day, the boxes don’t matter. Like you’re just still wasting time. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

The less measurable goals often have more meaning

Bob: And it can be the same way with money where it’s an easy way to keep score. But at the end of your life, is that the thing that really matters? Whereas whatever the thing is, whatever your purpose is in life, I think some of the most important things are really hard to measure and quantify, and that doesn’t make them less important. Actually, probably makes them more important.

Jordan: And you know what? One of the major problems with quantifiable goals are, especially when it comes to net worth… loss aversion. Like dream so much of getting to a net worth (net given is a better metric to track!) or being somewhere when it comes to money, as opposed to being happy and relaxed once we hit that number. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: We become immediately more stressed that we’re gonna lose it. In fact, probably doubly stressed than we were even before we had it. So loss aversion also keeps us at bay and takes what we look at as these money wins or these money goals. And really puts them in perspective that they don’t necessarily, again, solve our problems, especially our anxiety problems about getting somewhere.

I like that the less measurable goals often have more meaning to us. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Yes. 

Bob: That’s good. 

End of life and the questions asked

Linda: I think you mentioned earlier, you’ve learned a lot of this, or you started finding answers through working with these hospice patients. And I’m always intrigued by that because one of my grandmothers, she was on hospice at the end of her life and we were so grateful.

So I want to say thank you, first of all. Because. we didn’t know how to care for her. But she had cancer and it was all through her body. And she came to live with my parents and I at my parents’ house. It was such a sweet time with her. It really was like the most beautiful time I’ve ever had with her. And I loved her, it wasn’t like we had a bad relationship at all. But there was something so vulnerable and just different about that time.

I’m curious if you’re working with all these people who are in that phase of life, where they’ve seen everything that they’ve done, everything that they’ve accomplished, is there a common theme?

What do I actually want?

Jordan: Well, Linda, I love your story and because it really hits it right on point. When people find out they’re dying, it actually lifts a weight off their shoulders. We live our whole lives, worrying about what society thinks. What we’re supposed to think. 

Linda: Yeah.

Jordan: What we’re supposed to achieve. It’s probably the one time in life where you’re allowed to drop all that and ask yourself a really big question. What do I actually want? 

Linda: Hmm. 

Regrets that come in to play

Jordan: So the theme that comes up over and over and over again in dying patients is at some point they look at their life, and especially if they haven’t done those things they wanted to do, they really say something to the extent of: I really regret that I never had the energy, courage or time to do, you know, whatever comes next. To climb Mt. Everest. To spend more time with that family member that had meaning for me. To build up that skill or that hobby that I really loved, but I never spent enough time doing it. Whatever it might be for you, that’s the theme.

What I never hear… no one ever says to me, I wish I worked more nights and weekends. Like no one ever says that ever. No one ever says, you know, I built up my net worth to a million dollars, but I really wanted to hit 1.5 and I didn’t get there. No one ever says that either.

Usually it’s what are the things, people or experiences that really had meaning for them that they never had the courage to pursue. And so I think that’s a really valuable lesson.

Will you need a last minute plot twist in life?

Jordan: And when people have done those things, the dying process can be very, very peaceful. But when they haven’t done those things, we look for what I call the deus ex machina. Which is like the last moment plot twist that we have in a movie or in a play that makes everything right. Like you never thought it was gonna work. And all of a sudden, you have that last minute plot twist. 

Linda: Wow. 

Jordan: That’s what happens when you haven’t reached your goals is we try to help people get to that point where they can really work through those things and, and maybe meet some of them. 

Linda: That’s beautiful.

Jordan: But what if the dying could teach us not to need the last minute plot twist? Because we were thinking about the stuff when we were much younger before we got sick. 

Linda: Yeah. 

A 3-step process to help filter your decision making

Bob: Yeah. This is something that I think about probably more than people. I’m 41 and I don’t know why. I feel like I’ve just heard this message enough and it’s like trying to sink in. But do you have any advice for all of us listening, how to absorb this? Because I feel like we’ve heard variations of this.

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: And we’ve gone through these deathbed exercises of thinking about this. But how do you pull this into everyday life to where it becomes a filter for your decisions of… should I take this job? Should I do X or Y?

Jordan: My book basically talks about what I have really narrowed down now to a three step process.

Step one

Jordan: So the first step and the step we always mistake is a lot of us look at money in our finances and try to build that first. And then we start looking at: purpose, identity and connection. So in my opinion, the first step actually is we have to really start trying to define our sense of purpose, identity, and connections. Now in the book, there’s some exercise that go through it and we can certainly talk about it. But for the point of the three step process, thinking about purpose and identity first.

Bob: Yeah. 

Step two

Jordan: Once you have that in place, then it’s time to build your financial structure. I believe everyone should go towards financial independence, but there are a few different ways to do that. And if you keep your purpose and identity in mind, you can be very thoughtful about which path you take.

Linda: Hmm. 

Bob: Yeah.

Step three

Jordan: And then the last part, which I think is the most important to answer those questions of: how much do I live in the moment now? And how much do I defer so that I’ll have enough money to live to an old age and be okay?

How should you be spending your money?

Jordan: The last is really a question. And the question is, are you afraid of dying young and not using your money the way you want to? Or dying old but broke. And if you can answer that question, it’ll actually tell you how to start looking at how you spend your money today.

If you are worried about dying young and never using your money for good, then you probably. Should be structuring your life in such a way that you take what you have left after you pay all your bills.

Let’s say you use 60% of your income to pay your bills. And you’ve got 40% left. Someone who’s worried about dying young and not being able to use that money should really be spending 30 or 40% of that on the things that are important to them now. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: Right? So we would say almost Yolo, you only live once.

Use that money in a way that’s really important to you and do it now. And then maybe save the other 10% towards something like financial independence. Yeah. And so if your fear is founded and you die young, like my father you’ve lived a pretty good life and used your money accordingly. If you are wrong and you don’t die young, well then you’ve spent 30 or 40% of your income doing things that were really important to you. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Jordan: And you might not be able to retire at 45 or 55, but by saving 10% as you get to 65 or 70, you’ll be able to retire and you’ve been enjoying yourself the whole time. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: The other side of the coin is if you worried about growing to an old age and not having enough to fund it, then of that 40% that you have left over after you pay your bills, maybe you put 30% of that away towards investments in order to fund your retirement. And then you only use that 10% now to do what’s meaningful for you. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: And you’ll retire early and then you’ll have all that time and all that fuel from your investments to do those things that are important. 

Bob: Yeah.

Jordan: So that’s why that third question is so important because it helps you answer the question. What do I do today?

Linda: Yep. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: That’s how you measure out. How much do I spend today versus how much do I put away for later? 

Bob: Yeah. That’s good.

Linda: Interesting. 

Is money the key to living a good life now?

Bob: Have you read Die With Zero? 

Jordan: I haven’t read it, but I know a lot about it cuz I’ve spoken to people often about it. So for a guy who hasn’t read it, but has heard a lot about it. My only fear about a book like that is that it places a lot of importance on money. It really, I think in a lot of ways, as I’ve talked to people, makes it sound like money is the key to living a good life now. I think money’s a tool it’s helpful, but I think we can also live a good life now without as much money.

And I think, especially after reading your guy’s book, Simple Money Rich Life, I see that in your writing too. Like, we can’t wait till we have money to do the important things. We gotta learn how to do those now. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: I completely agree. So in the Die With Zero book, there were aspects of it where we’re not a hundred percent on the same page. But he talked about something that I thought was interesting. This idea that there are certain phases or seasons of life where money can be spent and used more efficiently (for lack of a better term), than in other seasons.

For example, going whitewater rafting. This might be something that you do from when you have the money to go on a like five day white water rafting trip or something. Maybe in your forties to 55 range might be the ideal range. But once you’re hitting 70, it’s probably not as enjoyable. It might be more painful, more dangerous, whatever, all these different things. 

Linda: Yeah. 

Identifying the key phases

Bob: And so the point is, how can you structure the way you’re spending kind of thinking through life through different kind of key phases and identifying like where those peaks are. Where you have more money, maybe you don’t have it in your twenties, but you have more to do some of those trips at a certain point. But also not push it off too far. So that was just something that has gotten me thinking a little bit as I’m, you know, in moving into my forties now. And like, what does that look like and how should I make decisions accordingly? You know? Just an interesting concept. 

What the F.I.R.E. movement gets wrong about life and death

Bob: So out of your book, Taking Stock, there’s just a lot of great stuff in here. I would recommend people check it out because I just love your perspective. I think you have such a healthy perspective, especially seeing the hospice side of this that you’re talking to so many people.

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: And getting these answers from them. But one other question I want to ask you about is what do you think financial experts or I should say financial independence experts (F.I.R.E.= Financial Independence Retire Early) get wrong about life and about death? And is there anything you want to expand on there? 

Jordan: So I think the F.I.R.E. movement, especially really got going in 2007-2008. It was the time of the great recession. You had people who were feeling burned out about their jobs and they wanted to grind it out.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: Make as much money as they could and then get out of their job, and I think it was kind of the old school version. And so what I think they got wrong is this idea that, and I got this wrong too, was the idea that you had to sacrifice a lot in order to be happy at some later date. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: And I think people who are coming to it now are starting to realize… no, no, no. There’s a way to actually do this where you both enjoy today, as well as save for tomorrow. So there’s newer flavors of F.I.R.E., like Slow F.I.R.E. or Coast F.I.R.E.. This idea is that we can both live today, but then also have our money working for us so that it’s sometime in the future. Maybe retirement goes a little further out, but we can start having a sense of meaning and purpose today. That’s becoming more the norm. 

So I think the original F.I.R.E. movement got that wrong. That, everything has to be sacrificed and grind in the beginning. 

Bob: Yep. 

Jordan: And that work has to be bad and you don’t like it and you need to get away from it as soon as possible. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Fear and F.I.R.E.

Jordan: One of the other things that I worry about with the F.I.R.E. movement is it really focuses very much on net worth. And I think it focuses very much on the fear of not having enough. 

Linda: Mm-hmm. 

The tools we have in life to start doing the things that are important to us

Jordan: I’d really like to change that focus away from the fear of not having enough, especially not having enough money. And move it more towards what tools do we have today to start doing those things that are important to us. So we look at money and you and I were just talking about money is a tool, but it’s one of many tools.

Bob: Yeah. 

Jordan: We have our energy. We have our youth. We have our passions. We have our connections with other people. We have our beliefs. All of these things are tools also. So I may not have a lot of that money tool, especially at the beginning of my journey.

But look at all these other tools I have. How can I use these to start doing the things I want today? Whether that’s within a job or the workplace, because some of us might be lucky enough to use those tools to love our jobs. Or to recognize our job is a way we make money.

And then build those other parts of life around so that we use those tools until we also build up that money tool. Which can again, be just one of many that can give us a little more power and strength to do the things we wanna do. So I don’t like this kind of scarcity feeling that comes with focusing so much on a net worth.

And I think the F.I.R.E. movement has to move away from that fear. I think the fear better is that we’re not living a life of meaning and purpose today. And that only partially very, very partially has to do with money. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: Yeah. 

What I do like about F.I.R.E.

Bob: You know, I’ve never been a huge F.I.R.E. component. But I do applaud the diligence and the effort and the thoughtfulness of solving a problem. And I appreciate that kind of aggressiveness. It’s solving a problem that most people didn’t think could be solved. And I’ve always loved that. 

But like with you, I agree. The aggressiveness of the hyper frugality component that seems to be synonymous with a lot of it, doesn’t really sit well with me.

Relating to paying off debt

Bob: And I completely agree with your approach and what you’re talking about there. Because it’s same way with paying off debt. We tend to view debt payoff a little bit different than maybe Dave Ramsey, who is again, very aggressive. Like, live on rice and beans for three years until you get a payoff. Or, sell everything but the kids and the dog like type of approach.

And, that’s fine. If you wanna do that, that’s fine. And it’ll go faster. But I also don’t think that you have to be miserable that whole time. I think you can space it out just a little bit longer and actually have some joy in that season. And so that tends to be how we prefer to roll and that’s how we paid off our debt. And we did it successfully. So I think you can do it either way. 

Working less

Bob: But another thing here out of that era, this is interesting for me, beacuse so much of my mindset and belief when I started my business was shaped by Tim Ferris in The 4-Hour Workweek. And that kind of ties in here a little bit because I accidentally ended up finding myself with a four hour work week. Sought out to do that and ended up accomplishing it, building a really passive business.

And got to the point where it’s like, oh, I don’t really have to work. I have a passive stream of income that’s covering all my expenses. That’s really cool in the first six months, maybe in the first year.

The struggle with working less

Bob: But after three or four years of that, it really can weigh on you. And really get depressing if you don’t have anything to do. I really struggled with that. There might have been other ways to solve this problem. But for me, I had to get back into the: get my hands dirty and start doing real work again, interacting with real people and helping solve real problems, in order for me to come out of that depressing season. And I feel like these are kind of tied together, you know? 

Jordan: Yeah. You know, it is so common for people who are aggressive about F.I.R.E., financial independence, to hit a place of real depression after they get everything on autopilot. It happened to me. It happens to people all the time. 

And in fact, I talk about someone I interacted with named Liz, a hospice doctor who actually fell into a deep depression once she got her finances in order. And she eventually got into a car accident and died. 

Bob: Oh man. 

Jordan: Probably partially because she was depressed and drinking a little more alcohol and you know, not sleeping as much and just felt totally out of sorts. 

Linda: Wow. 

Jordan: You know, money solves money problems. And in some ways we use money as a shield in order not to do the harder work of figuring out who we are and what we want. And it can lead to a really empty place when you reach this false goal. And you find that there’s emptiness there, instead of all that joy, you thought there was gonna be. 

Bob: Yeah.

Who do you want to be and what has meaning for you?

Jordan: And if you’re lucky, you get past that season and you start saying, who do I wanna be? And what has meaning for me? And then again, you use that tool as fuel to do the things that really have meaning for you. But a lot of people have trouble doing that because they didn’t spend the time upfront thinking about meaning, purpose, identity, all that important stuff. That’s actually the real goal.

So that’s where we get stuck. And I’ve seen many people and felt that depression myself, when I found out I was financially independent. And I had no idea that if I was going to walk away from this identity of being a doctor, who the heck was I gonna be? 

We are designed to work

Bob: Yeah, I just fundamentally believe that we are designed to work. And therefore it’s just part of who we need to be. And I think it’s amplified, like you’re saying by the fact of working so hard to get to this point, to reach this finish line and thinking that that’s gonna be the thing that makes you happy. When honestly the joy was found in the path to get there. Not after the finish line. 

We are built for community

Linda: Well, and I also think we were built for community. I think a lot of people think, well, I can just be financially independent and I can take care of myself and whatever. But there are so many seasons where I feel like we have needed people to help us in one way or another.

Bob: Yeah. 

Giving back

Linda: When I see the opportunity to give back and to… like a friend of ours just had a baby and I was like, you know what? I can actually take your other kids. Bring them to my house and give you some quiet time. Let you get a nap in. And I think that to me, brings so much more satisfaction than if I would to charge her for babysitting. Do you know what I mean? 

Bob: Yeah. 

Linda: I would rather do it for free because it feels like there’s a meaning and a purpose behind it. And that’s obviously a simple example, but. 

Bob: Yeah. No, that’s fair. 

Linda: Yeah. 

In closing

Bob: All right. Well, I appreciate you coming on and chatting about all of all this. So your new book’s called Taking Stock: Hospice doctor’s advice on financial independence, building wealth and living a regret free life. 

Jordan: Yeah.

Linda: I love it. 

Bob: I’m super excited to finish the book. I started reading it, but I want to finish it up. Thank you Jordan for taking the time and sharing your thoughts. I love your brilliant mind and excited to chat again. 

Linda: Did we mention his podcast? 

Bob: Oh yeah. Yeah. 

Linda: Good, good. 

Bob: Earn & Invest, right? 

Jordan: Yep. Earnandinvest.com. Or you can learn everything about me at jordangrumet.com. Everything about the book and everything about the podcast. I also have a medical blog that I wrote from 2005-2018, it’s linked there, too. So I’ve been in and around these things for a long time. 

Bob: Yeah, that’s great. All right, man. Well, thank you for sharing all that you do. And looking forward to chatting again soon. 

Jordan: Awesome. Thanks for having me on. 

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