(The following is an abbreviated transcription from a podcast Linda and I recorded with Dave and Ashley Willis. Please excuse any typos or errors.)
Today we are talking with Dave and Ashley Willis. And they run an awesome podcast called: The Naked Marriage Podcast.
Which, we just really like them a lot. They’re really fun and we’ve enjoyed being on their podcast.
And they love talking about sex. So if that’s something you want to learn about, their podcast is a great place to learn how to improve your sex life and your marriage among other marital things.
But right now we are chatting with Dave and Ashley about the 2 hardest topics in marriage to talk about: Sex and Money.
Now before we get into all the details, we recorded our discussion that you can listen to on our Podcast below. But, if you would rather read the full transcription, you can do so here in this article!
HARDEST TOPICS IN MARRIAGE: SEX AND MONEY, WHICH IS HARDER TO TALK ABOUT?
Bob Lotich: Right. And so, anyway, with that, Dave and Ashley, thank you for joining us on the SeedTime podcast.
Dave Willis: Oh, we’re so happy to be here. Yeah. Thank you. It’s a, it’s, it’s great to hang.
Bob Lotich: Yeah, it works. I just to chat a little bit and and I, well, here’s where I wanna start because you guys have this we both have a topic that a lot of people don’t like talking about. You know, sex being one, and then money being the other. And I’m curious, because you know, you talk to a lot of people about marriage on a wider spectrum. Do you find that it’s easier to talk about sex or money in marriage? What are your thoughts on this?
Dave Willis: That’s a great question. Hmm hmm. That is a tough one. I mean, I think it kind of depends on, on the couple. Like, if, if a couple has like a, in one of those areas, if it, it, if a couple has a weak spot, it’s very often in one of those two areas in terms of like, that’s the thing that when we talk about it, it just, it leads to a fight (check out the article: 7 simple rules to stop fighting about money).
Bob Lotich: Wow.
Dave Willis: You know, sex or money. And so if, if the couple already has like some, some money issues, like in early in our marriage we did, like, we were broke, we were in debt, we were making a bunch of dumb decisions (check out the unlikely money change that helped our marriage).
And it got to the point where we even talked about it would just create this, this tension. Yeah. I think couples can also feel that way about sex when you get in a, a rut with your sex life. Just bringing up the topic can feel really uncomfortable, and so I don’t know that either one is necessarily easier to talk about.
I think that it, it kind of depends on where a couple is, whether it’s an awkward conversation or not, I guess.
Ashley Willis: Yeah. And I think sex, you know, what we found kind of in the work we do, sex is one of those subjects where, you know, couples are more like, they, they feel like it’s even more intimate to talk about sex than actually engaging in the act itself.
Dave Willis: Yeah. I think they’re afraid to ask, you know, like really to be that vulnerable with their spouse and ask if they’re happy with how things are and to really hear the feedback. And also they, they’re a little bit insecure about giving feedback because they’re like, Well, I don’t wanna crush his spirit.
I don’t, you know, I don’t, I don’t want him to get the wrong idea. Yeah. I’m just trying to improve things. So yeah, it is, it is kind of similar in money to money in that way because I do think it brings, like there’s, there’s very strong feelings attached to both money and sex and so it, it is, they are two huge issues in marriage for sure.
PARENTING ABOUT MONEY AND ABOUT SEX
Bob Lotich: Yeah. Well, and it’s funny you say like the similarities. I think there’s a bunch here. I was actually talking to a friend not too long ago and he was saying sex is one of those things, and I think money is too, where most parents just don’t talk to you.
And so it’s just like, all right, just go figure it out. Hope you do it right. Hope you figure it out, you know, And, and anyway, so that’s why I’m so glad that you guys have the ministry that you do. That you guys are doing that lot.
Dave Willis: I still wanna talk to our parents about sex anyway. And that’s, that’s a whole nother thing too, like I get that.
Bob Lotich: Right. True. Again, like where do we go? Like, what do we do? And we just expect everybody to just figure this out on our own. And That’s very true. And it’s the same way with money in a lot of ways.
OUR EDUCATION IS COMING FROM THE WRONG PLACES
Linda Lotich: And our education is coming from the wrong places usually.
Dave Willis: Yep. Oh, yeah, yeah. Big time.
Bob Lotich: Definitely wonder about sex on TikTok. Probably not the best idea.
Dave Willis: Right, Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. If you Google, like Google sex or money. Like a bunch of stuff’s gonna pop up, that’s probably not biblical. So like they’re, yes they’re, because those areas are like so, so powerful and, and so sacred, how we deal with them is so sacred. That we, the enemy tries to just pump out as many counterfeits as he can in those two areas in particular to just mess, mess up the whole message out there.
And so our kids are growing up, and even our adults are living in a world where there are just so many mixed up and broken and unclear messages about sex and money. And then to, to complicate it further, the church has been scared to talk about those two issues. Yeah, I think it’s gotten better recently.
THE CHURCH SHOULD BE A GO TO SOURCE IN LEARNING ABOUT SEX AND MONEY
Dave Willis: I mean, in, in recent years you know, resources have, have come along to make, make it easier for churches to talk about sex and money, but it’s still not the go-to place. I don’t think most people think about like, where, where can I really learn about sex or money? That you usually don’t think of the church first.
Yeah. And so I love what you guys are doing. You know, you were bragging on definitely on us, but I love what you’re doing because it’s so, it’s so needed. And I even in our marriage, I’m telling you like some of the, the biggest tension we’ve ever had was over money issue. And I think if a couple can get a grip on that, man, it, it creates so much freedom.
FREEDOM IN SEX AND MONEY
Ashley Willis: Well, and freedom is the word, because when it comes to both sex and money, there are so many confusing messages where even as Christians. We feel like there can’t be freedom there, you know? (Check out our True Financial Freedom Course!)
And yeah, I know when it comes to sex, you know, a lot of us grew up in the purity culture where if we were taught anything about sex, it was like, you know, heaven forbid it, we have, I guess, you know, it is something you do in marriage.
Whatever you do, don’t think about it. Don’t talk about it. You know, when you get married you’ll figure it out. I mean, it’s, it’s just kind of throwing us out there. And and it really, I know the heart behind that message was good and, and had good intentions as far as trying to protect youth, you know, from, from things like unplanned pregnancies or STDs and just the baggage that comes with premarital sex and, and having multiple partners.
Those types of things, so that, that is a good intention. But I think, you know, the pendulum kind of swung too far to where there was so much shame attached to sex that a lot of us who grew up. You know, we were scared to death of it. And then it’s like, you know, when you actually have it, if you enjoy it, oh my gosh, there’s shame attached to this. How am I supposed to feel about this?
Dave Willis: Yeah. And I think really money is kind of the same way. I mean, there’s people out there that feel like it’s dirty, like sex and money are.
YOU CAN ENJOY BOTH SEX AND MONEY
Ashley Willis: It’s sex and money are dirty. It’s somehow you can’t enjoy it. You’re not yet. And I like, we have to deal with it, but you can enjoy it. If you enjoy it too much, then you’re probably sending and you know, so it’s just complicated. It really is.
Dave Willis: Yeah,so, so freedom. God wants us to have freedom. Yes. Freedom and wisdom to be able to use these two very powerful tools wisely. That he
Ashley: created. Yeah. He created it. It was his idea.
MONEY TENSION IN MARRIAGE
Bob Lotich: Yeah. So you mentioned some tension that you guys had with money. Would you be willing to share kind of what you went through, how you kind of worked through that?
Dave Willis: Yeah, yeah, sure. So we got married and we were broke, like she was still in college. I had just graduated (see the one thing I would teach a college grad). We were young and in love and thought that’s all we needed. And in some ways it was, but it’s all we had. It’s all we had for sure.
LIVING BEYOND YOUR MEANS VIA CREDIT CARDS
Dave Willis: And so to kind of make, make ends meet and to kind of facilitate a lifestyle that was probably beyond our very meager income (how to quit spending more than you make). We, we were charging stuff and then, you know, we build up a balance. Well, why don’t we just transfer this balance and then we’ll get low interest over here.
And that’s almost like we’re, we’re just beating the system. I mean, we’re, we’re just, now we’re gonna start over. We got a new card (here’s our credit card recommendations). Yeah. Yeah. We’re smarter than the credit card companies. And this, the debt started to mount (how to get out of credit card debt on your own). And really, it just, we felt it. We felt, especially you, I know it was squeezing us because we had, our margins were so slim anyways.
Our income was so small in those days. And it really put us on a journey of just saying, We’ve gotta figure this out. Like, we’ve got to figure out God’s plan for finances. Cause I know he doesn’t want us to live like this. Yeah. And and we just slowly started digging, digging our way out of it and getting scrappy and resourceful and It wasn’t any one thing, but it was, it was just, there was several things.
FIRST HOME WOES
Ashley Willis: Yeah, we could talk about that if you guys want us to. I mean, let’s just go there. Yeah. Be helpful to listeners. So like, probably one of the greatest gifts our parents kind of gave us in the beginning of our marriage was they co-signed for on, cuz again, like we had debt, and no credit. And so they co-signed to help us by our first house (what the Bible say about co-signing loans for others). And, it was what my friends referred to, like my sorority sisters. I drove them by it. I was so proud of this house. We all, they called it the love shack because like, they’re like, well, that’s there, but it’s like barely standing. They were literally swirled, like, like had residents there.
Dave Willis: The house was, we paid $49,000. $49,000 for this.
Linda Lotich: Wow.
Dave Willis: So just give you an idea.
Ashley Willis: What was for the wrecking ball? It was a HUD home (how to buy a home on the courthouse steps).
Dave Willis: It was in rough, rough shape. Yeah. And so, but we thought we’d, we’d hit the jackpot. We were like, Yes, these hours.
Ashley Willis: And, and really our parents, like my parents helped to fix it up. Dave’s parents co-signed out on the loan and also helped to fix it up. And it was really a family affair because we couldn’t even hire anybody like it was.
And I remember one Christmas, we lived there several years. One Christmas, our Christmas was we, I mean, again, it was very teeny but it needed a new roof. And Dave’s parents like helped to pay for the roof and it was like, I thought I was gonna cry because we could never afford that.
Ashley Willis: Yeah. And it was just things like that. So they helped us, set us up. But really that was one of those things where, because we owned it. And fixed it up two years later, we sold it at a profit and then invested that money into the next house and kind of through time we kept flipping homes before that was a thing (how to get started in real estate investing for beginners).
And my parents did that when I was growing up. So that was something that was, I was accustomed to as a kid. And and we would stay, you know, I don’t know, two years or so and then go to the next one and get a HUD home, fix it up. So we’re getting ’em cheap and we’re fixing him up. That really helped.
BEING SMART WITH YOUR FINANCES
Ashley Willis: Dave was really smart in negotiating. Work contracts year to year to say like, can I be paid this up front so I can pay off debt and then we’ll live on this. And we knew too that before we had children, you know, I was a teacher in the beginning of our marriage, but we knew that we wanted me to stay home. So we, we never depended on my salary, so we didn’t get used to what I was making as a teacher.
Bob Lotich: That’s smart.
Ashley Willis: That’s then when I, I did stay at home with our first child. We weren’t like, oh my gosh, you know, how do we make up this money? So, you know, over time by really trial and error and lots of mistakes we, and then just, God, you know? God really kind of bringing us through some good, some really good opportunities to get out of (God will provide!).
NEVER WANTING TO GO BACK INTO DEBT
Ashley Willis: We got out and once we got out we were like, we never wanna go back. Like a paid off car (strategies for buying a used car). I don’t care how old it is. Like we’ve had beaters for cars for years.
Dave Willis: Oh yeah. And we’re like, it can smell, but it’s paid off. And that’s the best smell ever. And those are just a few of the principles. We were like, we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna have a car payment, even if it means like driving old beat up vehicles. We’re not gonna have a car payment and we’re not gonna have credit card balance.
USING CREDIT CARDS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE
Dave Willis: Like I know like Dave Ramsey would probably hate us, but we, we still put a lot on a credit card every month because, because of our, we get airline miles, like we pay for flights (how we travel for free in the US).
Bob Lotich: We’re with you.
Dave Willis: Yeah. It works. It just works. It’s like, it works for, for me it’s like, it’s, it’s dumb for us to put all that on a debit card and get nothing for it.
Ashley Willis: Yeah. But we pay it off every single month (how to use credit cards responsibly). And where we fiercely protect because we know the pain of being in. We fiercely, like it’s a big principle that we had to learn the hard way and we teach our children like we really teach our children.
SAYING NO TO COLLEGE LOANS
Ashley Willis: We’re getting ready to launch one to college, and we’re like, You will not take on college debt (how to go to college for free). We will do whatever we can to get you through college without debt.
Linda Lotich: Wow.
Ashley Willis: And I know that’s not always possible for everyone. You know, that, that’s, that’s where a lot of people start out. Like, I know our, our, you know, friends and siblings, so many had college debt going into their marriage. And that can cause a lot of marital strife.
And but you know, I think another principle that we’ve always adopted is like when you’re married, I mean, it’s, it’s not his money. Her money, it’s our money. So, and it’s our debt, you know, we gotta get in there and face it together. And and Dave and I both really always tried to look at it that way and cuz I think it’s easy to be like, well you created this.
Like yeah, you went and spent this and, and, and I get it. I mean it’s, it’s okay to be upset if, if like one, one spouse did do something. But I think, you know, getting in there and attacking it together. I don’t know, for us personally it helps so much more.
Dave Willis: Oh, that’s, that’s huge. That’s huge. Yeah.
Linda Lotich: There’s so much power there, don’t you think? Like God puts you together. And when you join forces as a team, it moves it faster so much, or moves it forward so much faster, right?
Dave Willis: Yes, absolutely.
Bob Lotich: Yes, definitely.
Dave Willis: Yeah. That’s what we saw for sure.
Linda Lotich: Yeah. And I think that there’s so much power in the unity because it’s like the scripture says one can chase 1,000 and 2 can chase 10,000. I mean, I think it just amplifies it when you guys get in, when, when a couple gets in unity.
Bob Lotich: Well, yeah. And this whole idea of two becoming one flesh. Right? You know, it’s like, cuz we had the same thing. Like I, I was on my financial journey when we got, or I guess when we got engaged. And then Linda was not quite on her journey yet. I think we might have talked about this on your podcasts a little bit, but.
Linda Lotich: But I, I was willing to go along with it let’s just say.
Bob Lotich: But when we had this talk, the money talk, when we first got engaged, we were like, all right, let’s lay out our cards, see where we are, type of thing. That was, yeah, like, I don’t know why, where that came from, but I just intuitively knew.
It’s like, all right, this is no longer her debt. This is my debt. This is our debt. We’re on a team. Like, I’m not, we’re not gonna draw a line in the sand. You. That just seemed to be the thing that made sense and I’m really glad we did that.
Ashley Willis: Yeah.
Linda Lotich: Immediately. Yeah.
COMMUNICATION IN MARRIAGE
Linda Lotich: Yeah. So I have a question for you, cuz we often will get marital questions when it comes to talking about money. And I would love for you guys to just talk about some ways of like bringing up topics that your spouse might not want to talk about.
In this case, probably money, yeah, is why people are listening. But like how do you even get to a place where you can have a conversation about it and how do you bring things up without triggering the other person? Like all of that advice. I think people would’ve love to learn.
Dave Willis: Yeah, Completely agree.
Bob Lotich: Because we, we talk about this and we will, you know, we have our best tips for this, but like, I’d love to hear from you guys from the marriage experts. What, you know, what works for you or what you, I mean, yeah, I wanna hear your advice.
Dave Willis: I think a lot of wine first. Lot of bourbon before. And even if they’re not a drinker, just slip it in. Whatever their drink is not working in , just slip it. They don’t need to know. And it’ll rely on here.
Ashley Willis: Just try those real quick. It’s for your music.
Dave Willis: Oh man. Hey, we’re gonna talk, but here have this why does this taste funny? Have this soda, Sprite, here. It’s different. No, it’s fine.
Ashley Willis: Just have it. No, Dave, I thought what you were gonna say…
DO IT NAKED
Ashley Willis: In all, in all seriousness, Dave’s always his best advice for talking about anything is do it naked. He’s like, because it’s like…
Dave Willis: Well, I, I’ve always said like, like if, if, if husbands like, if your wife said, ask you something, and she’s naked. When she asked whatever she asks, It seems like a good idea. I’m like, that’s why Adam took the fruit. Like he knew it was a bad idea, like a snake talked to you and gave you this.
But the reason it was a good idea to him was she was naked. She was like, hey, hey, this snake gave me this fruit. We should eat it. And he is like, yeah, that sounds right. You know? Great idea. I don’t know, like this is good. And that’s half joking, but there’s a truth in it, I think.
Bob Lotich: Yes, I agree. Yeah. I think . Wow.
KNOWING THE RIGHT TIME TO TALK
Dave Willis: You can’t always probably have your conversations naked. Right? It might be distracting or cold or whatever.
Ashley Willis: But and we will say too, Really, like in the heat of like an intimate moment is not the time to say, you know, I’m really wanting to kill debt. Like, or I got this bill today.
Dave Willis: And I mean that, that is, how are we gonna pay for these kids’ braces? It’s like, okay, that’s not gonna be good.
Ashley Willis: So, yeah. No, I, I think it’s really important to make sure, like we as spouses, we know the best time of day, like for Dave and I, we have different flows in our energy and like for.
The worst time to try to talk to me about something is in the afternoon because that I, you know, that’s just when I’m not, I’m not gonna probably be able to give you my full attention and be at my, at my best, per se, right? Because I just tend to be a little tired.
Now for Dave, I don’t do that like at nighttime. He, he goes all day long, like he’s one of those people. He can literally go. All day long, but you hit like 9:00 PM Oh, yeah. Literally, there’s, there’s no more, there’s no conversation.
Dave Willis: Talk to me at night. Like no deep conversations talk. And I’m like, I am so tired. I don’t want to talk. And so like our flow, we found that if, if we’re doing an activity, like specifically a walk. For on a walk, not at those times a day, getting some fresh air outside without the intensity or pressure of just sitting across like we, we’ve gotta hash this out right now. Like, it’s like, like it’s this ominous work thing. Instead of just saying like, hey, let’s just talk through this, and we do it on a walk.
Ashley Willis: Or a drive.
Dave Willis: Or a drive, Yeah. It, it tends to relax both of us, and it tends to just help both of us open up. And it just feels more natural that way for us.
I think for, for couples listening right now, you gotta find your flow, you know? Maybe it’s over a meal. Maybe it’s, you know, I don’t know what it is for you, but you’ve gotta find that for you. And, and just kind of apply those principles, like help your spouse be at their best. Don’t, don’t kind of surprise ’em during a time of day or an activity where they’re, they’re just totally not in that mindset, like an ambush. Don’t ambush ’em. That’s, that’s not, not a good word.
But you know, find something where you can get into a flow of communication naturally about anything. And we’ve found on our walks, which we try to do as often as we can. We’ve talked about silly stuff, serious stuff, everything in between, and it’s just a natural flow for us. So find that for you (check out our process to have personal goal setting days, as family, couple and individually).
FRIENDSHIP IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF MARRIAGE
Linda Lotich: Go ahead. What I was gonna say is what it almost sounds like you’re saying is a time where you’re kind of like building your friendship. Does that sound accurate?
Ashley Willis: So good. Yeah, absolutely. I, I love that friendship’s such an essential part of marriage. So definitely like, just spending that quality time together is a great time and, and laugh together, like lead into it through talking about other things that are not so serious.
And then when you know, you both are calm, you both are, are really kind of enjoying that time. You can say, you know, this has been on my heart. This is what I’ve been feeling.
HAVING THE RIGHT APPROACH
Ashley Willis: And I was just, I was gonna add to what Dave said to use “I statements.” Cuz I think when it comes to money, when we are like, you, you, you. Like, you know, you haven’t paid this on time or you still haven’t looked at this budget. You haven’t done this.
That just feels very attacking and, and all of it may be true. But when you use “I statements” and say, listen, here’s, here’s what I am thinking. Here’s what I am feeling. Here’s what I’m seeing in our kind of a, a pattern in our finances. And and then even taking it a step further and asking your spouse a question. We do this frequently.
It’s like, what do you think I could do to help our finances this week? Like do I need to go, like for me, I love going to Chick-fil-A like multiple times a week. And if, I’ll even ask Dave, I’ll say like, like almost daily. It’s not all times, but I’ll say sometimes I’m like, listen, is it a lean week? Like is this a leaner week?
Because like we’ve had, or we were talking about cars earlier, we have this minivan we’ve had forever. It’s had a bunch of issues like within the span of six weeks, it’s been three times to the shop.
Dave Willis: We could have just bought a new minivan, I think for what we, we paid.
Ashley Willis: It’s coming up. I know that’s coming up, but but I, you know, in that time, because we’re having more money going out just to make sure, you know, we’ve got college funds and we’ve got retirement (How much do you need to retire?).
I’m just making sure we, we try to constantly, you know, or, or not constantly, but frequently check in. I’ll say like, should I lay off the Chick-fil-A this week, or, You know, just different things. Just having that communication. I think the fact that we can go to each other when, when you go to your spouse and you’re willing to ask and then receive kind of what they think about whatever decision you’re making.
Yeah. It just really shows them that you’re not making accusations. You’re in this together. And, and you’re not, you’re not just fixated on what maybe they could improve on, but you’re really trying to see what you yourself can improve.
BE READY FOR THE FEEDBACK
Linda Lotich: Yeah. I love that. And I love the, the idea of being ready for the feedback when it comes.
Ashley Willis: Yeah.
Linda Lotich: Sometimes we just wanna hear the answer that we wanna hear. Right?
Ashley Willis: Never. For sure. It’s so true. It’s so true.
Linda Lotich: Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. I love that.
Dave Willis: That’s really helpful.
MARRIAGE ADVICE FOR OUR YOUNGER SELVES
Bob Lotich: So I’d love to hear, you guys are 20 years in right on your marriage?
Dave Willis: 21.
Ashley Willis: I know. 20, right? Your marriage can drink. Congrats. I know.
Dave Willis: Drinking age, marriage. That’s right. Right. Finally.
Bob Lotich: So, okay. So what’s great about being married for 21 years is you’ve probably presumably made some mistakes, learned some lessons over the years. And I’d love to hear what advice you would give to your younger selves at the beginning of your marriage based on where you are now.
Dave Willis: So good. I would tell my younger self buy Amazon stock right now. Buy all, all that you can. That’s something you can put on the credit card. And, and Bitcoin. Go buy those. I would say, gosh, that’s a great question. What would you say?
Ashley Willis: Man! I know it is hard. I know for me personally, when we hit the early parenting years, I was such a ball of nerves and just so not enjoying it. Like not, not that I didn’t. I obviously love Dave and love the kids, but that was really hard on our marriage too. Oh yeah. It was a stressful season.
JUST CHILL OUT
Ashley Willis: I think what I would say to my, my younger self is just to, to chill out. Especially when it came to like the, those early parenting years, that was probably one of the hardest. In our marriage as far as just there being some tension between us because yeah, we, we saw very quickly that we both kind of, when our kids started showing their colors so to speak, that we had very different parenting styles.
And for me personally, I’ve always been kind of one who kind of lays down a hammer, very black and white. And Dave is just nicer than me. I always joke and say like, between the two of us is like a really balanced parent. And so, you know, we, we reached, we reached out to mentors during that time and got help and read books and got on the same page with it.
So it was a really good exercise in us working together. But, just, I wish I could have, you know, I tell Dave all the time, we had our kids kind of like they’re the bigs and the littles. We had two very close together and they’re now 15 and 17, and our younger two are 10 and 7.
And I, I tell Dave, I’m like, I just feel like I enjoy our younger two so much more because I have that perspective of just chilling out and not taking everything like the world is falling down. Or like it’s so serious and just enjoying that season in our family. Don’t look at me and and in our marriage. And so anyway, that’s, that’s what I would tell myself.
LAUGHTER IS THE BEST CHILL OUT METHOD
Linda Lotich: Okay. How do you chill out?
Ashley Willis: Oh gosh, a question I’m laughing. Like honestly laughing and really realizing like, I mean we wouldn’t you say like we kind of laugh off more and I know there’s certainly serious times, serious moments.
I know for me cause I know you still have a, you have a three year old in the home. Potty training was just with our first two. Oh my gosh. I felt like a failure. Actually our oldest had issues like belly issues that we had to work through, so then it kind of extended his time to be able to potty train.
Then you’re like, Oh my gosh, I signed him up for preschool. Are we gonna be disqualified? Because he’s not fully potty trained, you know, and you’re praying he makes it through the day without, you know, soiling a diaper so that you’re technically potty trained or whatever, you know? And I just remember being just a ball of nerves and I think with our younger two, I was like, they’re gonna, you know, they’ll be potty trained. It’s all good. Yeah, we’re, and we’re too tired.
Dave Willis: I think we’re just tired too by the last one. And it’s, it’s just cuz I’m old, but like, like we were so stressed with everything, with that first one and, and by the last one you’re just, Yeah. You know what, he, he’s seven years old. He already smokes cigarettes and has a tattoo. But it’s, it’s funny, it’s, we’re more laid back. We’re like, He’ll grow out of it.
Ashley Willis: You’re like the sweetest.
Dave Willis: Like, no, he’s really a sweet kid.
Ashley Willis: And we had tense moments too. And roll. Yeah. But we just laugh. We, we just take it with a grain of salt more, I feel like.
STRESS AFFECTS OUR HEALTH
Dave Willis: But I think just saying, lighten up. Would’ve been helpful back then. Because like I ended up, you know, in our, my mid thirties getting diagnosed with a, a thyroid disorder and, and just my whole body was just kind of shutting down. And, and some of that I guess, is probably genetic. But, but they feel like what triggered it so early was just stress. Like I was just living with, with a, a perpetual level of stress that was completely unsustainable.
Bob Lotich: Wow.
Ashley Willis: He, you had like, he thought he had digestives and like he was convinced he had it a tumor.
Dave Willis: I was, yeah. Cause I, I just felt this like rock in my stomach all the time and, and, and I was trying to just outrun it basically, like literally and figuratively. I was trying to just exercise more. And do more, do more to kind of get ahead of, of not, not feeling great, but my body was just shutting down. Because yeah, I was living in an unhealthy way with an unhealthy amount of stress, and so had to kind of re rethink the way that I do life in general.
Bob Lotich: Really.
Dave Willis: Yeah. And so I wish I would’ve known that earlier, kind of given myself permission to just say, You know what? It’s good to work hard. It’s good, you know, to be productive and all those things. But I think I almost like worshiped productivity, feeling like I had to constantly be doing something.
And I’m, I’ve gotten slowly, I’ve gotten a lot better at, at rest than at chilling. You have, you really, you really have. And it’s, it’s helped, It’s helped my health and then, and then consequently it’s helped I think our, the whole dynamic at home. So I would’ve told myself that early on, like, , You gotta, you gotta chill a little better.
Bob Lotich: Yeah, you gotta chill.
HEALTH, WEALTH AND BUFFETT
Bob Lotich: So yeah, I like asking this question because I’m fascinated by Warren Buffett (my favorite quotes from Warren). I, I heard somebody talking about him and Warren himself didn’t say this, but I very confident that he would agree with this. That Warren at age 90, now with health issues nearing the end of his life, would give anything to be 25.
You know, like all the money in the world, second richest person in the world, like it’s meaningless like at that age in his situation. But to be able to start over, like would be the valuable thing. And so with that in mind, like I just love asking this question and trying to like, You know, come back from the end and, and I don’t know, and evaluate it through that lens.
WHAT WOULD BE DONE DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD A DO OVER?
Bob Lotich: Like what would I do differently if I had a chance to do it over? Which why I’m asking that and you know, and I think it’s an important thing that I, I think both of us are realizing this now that we’re on our third kid, cuz we see the exact same pattern. Right, of we are more chilled with the third one.
Ashley Willis: Maybe a little too chilled. We’re working on it.
Linda Lotich: I’m working on it.
Bob Lotich: She doesn’t wanna parent our youngest, or discipline. I say she doesn’t wanna. I don’t wanna discipline, do any discipline. I just wanna enjoy it.
Dave Willis: Of course, I get that. Those babies all get away with, with it. I mean, that’s, it’s fine. It’s like, you know, they’ll, they’ll be fine.
Linda Lotich: Good. I’m feeling like, all right, maybe we need to get started.
Ashley Willis: So let this sink in a little bit.
RESOURCES FOR YOUR MARRIAGE AND SEX LIFE
Bob Lotich: All right. Well I appreciate you guys coming on. I would love if you guys wouldn’t mind sharing, cuz you have so many great resources. I’d love to point anyone listening to somebody who wants to find. And somebody listening is like, Yeah, I need to start working on my marriage or my sex life in my marriage.
Like, all right. Where do they start with you guys? What’s the best? Yeah, because I know you have a bunch of books, like where should people start?
Dave Willis: For a few of those topics, I would, yeah, I would say start by just going to our ministry’s website. We’re part of a, a broader ministry. It’s not just us, but it’s, it’s a lot of other voices. Including Bob and Linda.
Bob Lotich: Yes.
Dave Willis: And that’s xomarriage.com. There’s just a great library of resources there, videos, articles, event calendar, all those things for us directly. I would say two resources. One in social media, you can follow us on Instagram @davidashleywillis or on Facebook. Look us up there (Dave and Ashley).
And then The Naked Marriage Podcast is where you can, you can find us and especially look up our episode with Bob.
Ashley Willis: Yeah. And as far as books, again, you can find [email protected] We have a book by the same title as our podcast. Called the Naked Marriage. It kind of gives the heart behind why we call it the naked marriage and what that even means.
And and then about as far as sex goes, the Counterfeit Climax is our latest book and it talks all about those mixed messages and counterfeit messages that a lot of us kind of brought into the message when it, or into the marriage when it comes to sex and how to work through those and, and have better sex life.
Dave Willis: So, yeah. That’s awesome.
Bob Lotich: I love that. Well, yeah, we just love you guys. We’re so thankful that you’re doing what you’re doing. You’re making such a big impact and you probably know that, but I still wanna encourage you with that. Yeah. And just keep up the good work. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Dave Willis: Thanks, you guys too. You’re making a huge difference and I can’t wait to finally meet in person sometime soon. I feel like we’re, we’re like I know we need to do it. Zoom, zoom buddies. That’s right. For life now. But like, I wanna hang out with you guys. So, but in the meantime, keep it up. You’ve added so much to our lives into the, the Ministry XO and to many, many people who are, who are listening and benefiting from your wisdom. So thank you.
Bob Lotich: Yes, Thank you all. Well, appreciate you guys. Thanks!